Nitrous oxide questions

[Barrier]

All right, so I've decided to go the cheap way for all that extra horsepower. Basically my car has a good amount of miles on it, has no resale value, and right now I just want to run it with a crapload of power until the motor detonates or I get some real cash, in either case prompting me to get a cobra motor with a Kenne Bell.

The only problem is: I don't want anyone to know it's there.

First off I've decided to run a wet shot, with steel lines and at least a WOT switch and a regular switch. That being said, I'm still thinking about placement and what exactly to run.

I figure I'll get cheater solenoids and hide them behind the engine, paint them and the lines matte black, and run the line up under my intake tube right in front of the TB, or get a cheater plate.

Now, my questions:

1. Where does the cheater plate mount to? It looks like it'd fit between the TB and plenum, but I dunno.

2. Aside from what comes in these "kits" I see around here, what else is needed for "safely" running a nitrous oxide system?

3. Around what shot should I do for a good boost of energy without utterly destroying the engine? I understand it'll wear the engine out over time, but being I'm replacing it anyways in a year or two-ish, I want something that will hopefully keep the motor alive until then.

4. Is a tune required for a wet shot? If so, I have a diablosport predator... would I be able to get a map from a professional and sent to my tuner so I can load it when I plan on running the nitrous?

5. Bottle placement. I'm planning on a 10 lb bottle, but I can go smaller if I find a great place to put it. I want it hidden if at all possible, but at least inconspicuous. However it must be inside the cabin within arm's reach so I can turn it on without getting out of the car. I was thinking about possibly cutting out the foam under the rear seat behind the passenger (least used seat) and putting it there, while cutting a hole in the front right below the seat to fit the nozzle through.

Give me your thoughts I want to do this right, not half ass it, and I will be installing the whole thing with a seasoned tech that does this kind of stuff. Just need some info from the community so I can start with my lil project

Thanks fellas.:SNSign:

 

[Barrier]

Bueler? Anyone?

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Hey Wes, I think you will find it is more trouble than it's really worth to go through all the effort of hiding everything. Why do you want to hide it anyway?

If you are dead set on hiding everything and going with a cheater type plate, they usually mount in between the TB and plenum. I’ve seen a few cars that had them between the plenum and the intake manifold but I think they were one off plates. You can get away with at least a 125 wet shot on the stock bottom end. BTW, detonation is not a nitrous cars worst enemy, pre-ignition is. Pre-ignition can induce detonation, and detonation can induce pre-ignition but pre-ignition is what breaks parts. Lots of people, even so called pros get the two confused.

It would be a good idea to have a tune for anything 75 HP or bigger. If you go 100 HP or bigger, it would be a good idea to consider running a plug that is one heat range colder such as the NGK TR-6. This also allows you to gap the plug tighter to prevent spark blowout and/or a fouled plug. You should run a window switch that is pilled no less than 3000 RPM and a few hundred RPM short of your programmed rev limit. A fuel pressure safety switch would be a good idea, but if you are on a tight budget that piece is not absolutely critical.

Are you running the stock clutch?

 

[Barrier]

Heya Kev,

I kind of figured you'd be stepping in the convo at some point

I'm using an FRPP clutch with a fidanza 13 lb flywheel. I was thinking somewhere along the line of 100-125, and yes hiding everything is a must, as I'm trying to keep it under wraps After reading a whole lot of junk in the past hour or two I've heard everything from "It'll destroy your car!" to "100 shot is nothing on the engine!" but some more important points I've heard are getting A/F ratio and fuel pressure gauges, retarding the timing anywhere from 2-4 degrees depending on the amount of NO2, and running 2 step colder plugs.

Wanna highlight/critique any of that info?

Thanks again

 

[LaserRed01GT]

I think a plug that is two steps colder (heat range 7) is way overkill for a small 100-125 shot. A one step colder(6 heat range) plug will be just fine.

Getting the ignition timing advance and total timing can be done by datalogging and reading the plugs. You will start with a safe approach (retarded) and then gradually advance the timing until it is right. It is very important to read the plugs the first couple of times you spray. You want to look for "peppered" plugs. This is a sign of detonation caused by too much advance and/or too much total timing. You also want to look for little specs of aluminum on the insulator or a greenish tint on the insulator. The ground strap will also tell you if you have your timing just right or not. Ideally you will want the color contrast on the ground strap to be right at the apex of the bend.

If you set everything up correctly and get the car tuned well, a small 100-125 wet shot will not hurt anything. I almost run a bottle(10 lb) a week through my '01 and I am not easy on it either. But, I datalog every single nitrous run, and I always check my plugs after a night of spraying at my local track.


Thread – 14mm
Reach - .708”
Socket – 5/8 hex
Seat - Taper
Stock Heat Range: 5
Gap: .054
Plug: NGK TR55 (stock number 3951); NGK TR55IX (stock number 7164); Motorcraft AWSF-32C (copper); Autolite 764; Denso IT-16 (stock number 5325)

Nitrous (one step colder)
Heat Range: 6
Gap: .035 - .038
Plug: NGK TR6 (stock number 4177); NGK TR6IX (stock number 3689); Motorcraft AWSF-22C (copper); Autolite 103; Denso IT-20 (stock number 5326)

Nitrous (two steps colder)
Heat Range: 7
Gap: Consult
Plug: NGK BR7EF (stock number 3346); NGK TR7IX (stock number 3690); Motorcraft AWSFA-12C (copper); Autolite AR94; Denso IT-22 (stock number 5327)

 

[Barrier]

Awesome, just the info I need

Is the plate delivery any more accurate than a single fogger system? I might want to run the single fogger being I can hide it under my intake instead of those cables protruding from the TB... but not if it sacrifices stability/safety...

Thanks Kev!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

On every EFI nitrous car I have ever owned or worked on, I have always got the best reults with wet kits spraying back before the TB just a little bit. It gives the fuel/N20 more time to mix and it allows for better N20 evaporation which will cool the charge air even better.

Here is where I have my N20/Fuel nozzle:

View attachment 407251

 

[Barrier]

Awesome! Now I just need to find a decent kit for a 125 shot... I've found a good deal on a kit with some nice cheater solenoids (they look like silver boxes) but it comes with the plate... and I really want the single fogger like yours. Are the lines interchangeable between the fogger and the plate? Or do they have different connections? Granted I would have to find 125 hp nozzles for the fogger, but that can't be too hard...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=230084840869&rd=1&rd=1

 

[LaserRed01GT]

You really don't want to cheap out on the solenoids. That is probably the most critical part of the whole system. It looks like the plate on the kit in the link you posted is one that goes between the plenum and intake manifold. I don't like spraying behind the TB like that. Especially with a wet setup. You are asking for fuel puddling problems.

I would really suggest just saving up a few hundred extra doallrs and get a well known and proven reliable kit.

If you mean are the fuel and N20 supply lines interchangeable? Yes, they are. They are usually -6 or -4 AN.

 

[Barrier]

Good point... I'll probably just go with the regular NX or NOS system and get cheater solenoids then...

I think you've just about run me dry of questions Kev Thanks again for all your help!

~Wes

 

[04YELLOWGT]

I'd be careful with a 125 shot with a high milage car. A guy in town has blown 2 high milage GT engines on nitrous. The first was on a 150 shot and the second was on a 125 shot. I think if you want to keep your engine for awhile Id stick with a 100 shot to be on the safe side.

 

[fast97gt]

dude ive poted and replied on another thread i know a girl that drives a 99gt w/over 220,000 on the clock origanol stock engine sprayin a 300 wet shot with a good tune and has no prob. and is not a car to mess with around my parts so you should be fine with a 125 wet shot and a good tune

 

[hotmustang331]

^AHAHAHAHA Thats total BS. (I mean what shes telling you)

A. that would be most likely putting down WELL OVER 500RWHP (bye bye rings)

B. a WET shot wouldnt work....our intakes are not designed for fuel and will start puddling and you WILL have a N20 backfire (bye bye intake and most likely valves) with anything over 150 wet shot.

Everyone I have seen put a 150 wet shot on a GT, has had a N20 back fire shortly after. Another guy threw a 200 wet shot on his forged motor..(I think it put down 500RWHP) and his first romp on the street resulted in a back fire. Also plenty of vids on the net of guys with 150 shots backfiring on the dyno while or after getting a tune. Just WAY too dangerous.

IMHO a 125 is pushing it (the possability of back fire not soo much the bottom end) ....but like laser said, you can get away with it. Just get a good tune!

 

[fast97gt]

hotmustang i watched the install and all the tune and dyno runs when i say stock motor i mean the internals, shes runnin a frpp intake with a trick flow tb and i think the numbers were around 575 to 585 to the rear wheels so dont tell me thats total b.s. cause if she would have told me that i wouldnt have beleived he eather and i sure wouldnt replie on here cause that would make it hear say then that could make me rumor starter sooo.... now what

 

[fast97gt]

and another thing she babys that car until time to race it on the weekends and the after the hard runnin the new essetials like plugs fuel filter and things of that nature are replaced to keep the performance up

 

[04YELLOWGT]

I still dont belive it. I dont give a f*** how much you baby that car with a 300 shot on stock internals its done. Well maybe its installed and she never has actually used the nitrous, then I would belive it. lol

 

[Barrier]

Stop hijacking my thread with your BS!

 

[LaserRed01GT]

and another thing she babys that car until time to race it on the weekends and the after the hard runnin the new essetials like plugs fuel filter and things of that nature are replaced to keep the performance up

How do you baby a nitrous motor?? Your foot is either on the floor and spraying or it isn't. And BTW, there is absolutely no way an internally stock 4.6 2V holds together under a 300 shot.

 

[the98stang]

Just curious- why would a 300 direct port not work on a stock 4.6 2v? There was a guy on modularfords pushing 600+ WHP on the stock block FOR 3 YEARS (with boost)! I know, sounds rediculous, but that's what he claims. Others have tuned these motors for 450-550 on the stock block as well. I know a 300 shot on the stocker is a stupid thing to do, but how is it not possible if others have lasted years with more HP, using a blower?

 

[LaserRed01GT]

Just curious- why would a 300 direct port not work on a stock 4.6 2v? There was a guy on modularfords pushing 600+ WHP on the stock block FOR 3 YEARS (with boost)! I know, sounds rediculous, but that's what he claims. Others have tuned these motors for 450-550 on the stock block as well. I know a 300 shot on the stocker is a stupid thing to do, but how is it not possible if others have lasted years with more HP, using a blower?

Nitrous oxide generates enormous cylinder pressures under load. Far more than boost from a blower. A 300 shot on a 4.6 2V could easily generate over a 500 PSI (BMEP) cylinder pressure. That pressure combined with the heat that would accompany it would make quick work of a stock bottom end. The Hypereutectic pistons would literally be melted. The stock ignition system would also not be able to generate enough spark energy even with a tightly gapped 2 or 3 step colder plug. Nobody has made 600 RWHP on the stock bottom end and had it last for years. That is total bull.

When you say other tuners have got 450-550 RWHP from the stock block, I’m sure you mean shortblock. There is a big difference between a block and shortblock.

This is a block(notice the rotating assembly is not installed):

View attachment 406987

And this is a shortblock(notice the rotating assembly is installed):

View attachment 406989