Nitrous oxide questions

Barrier · Jan 30, 2007

Haha, this is why Kev = the MAN!

Hey Kev, I'm thinking about doing the wiring in this way, tell me what you think.

EDIT: I would of course be putting in the necessary fuses and hook the arm switch and button in to a power source the way the kit tells me to do it, this is more along the lines of seeing if my diagram from the arm switch to the solenoids will work.

LaserRed01GT · Jan 30, 2007

The only thing I don't see on that wiring diagram is a relay. Make sure you use a relay between the arming switch and solenoids and make sure the relay is grounded very well.

Normally whatever kit you buy will include instructions and wiring diagrams. NX has a pretty decent writeup for the 4.6 on their website.

2kyellowgt · Jan 31, 2007

I have been running a 150 shot for about 2 years now. On a completey stock motor. I Have all the safety goodies, tune, focus pump and #30 injectors. I make 437 hp and 461 tq on a Mustang Dyno. I was told that is over 450 on a dyno jet.

I use NX wet plate kit. There are no problems with backfires or puddling at all. you just need to know what you are doing.

the98stang · Jan 31, 2007

LaserRed01GT said:
Nitrous oxide generates enormous cylinder pressures under load. Far more than boost from a blower. A 300 shot on a 4.6 2V could easily generate over a 500 PSI (BMEP) cylinder pressure. That pressure combined with the heat that would accompany it would make quick work of a stock bottom end. The Hypereutectic pistons would literally be melted. The stock ignition system would also not be able to generate enough spark energy even with a tightly gapped 2 or 3 step colder plug. Nobody has made 600 RWHP on the stock bottom end and had it last for years. That is total bull.

When you say other tuners have got 450-550 RWHP from the stock block, I’m sure you mean shortblock. There is a big difference between a block and shortblock.

This is a block(notice the rotating assembly is not installed):

View attachment 406685

And this is a shortblock(notice the rotating assembly is installed):

View attachment 406687

Now I understand that nitrous creates too much heat/pressure for the stock shortblock (in massive quantities). Thanks for clearing that up.

I said block, but I meant shortblock, meaning stock pistons/crank/rods etc.

Here is one guy making 530whp http://www.modularfords.com/forums/...stock-short-b-23628.html?highlight=600whp

615WHP:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/mustang-gt/my-car-just-made-615-rwhp-62106.html

Stock shortblocks my friend

the98stang · Jan 31, 2007

Barrier:

DIY write up: http://www.freewebs.com/dndgarage/nxinstall.htm

Wire diagram: http://forums.************.com/power-adder/31917-faq-nitrous.html

LaserRed01GT · Jan 31, 2007

the98stang said:
Now I understand that nitrous creates too much heat/pressure for the stock shortblock (in massive quantities). Thanks for clearing that up.

I said block, but I meant shortblock, meaning stock pistons/crank/rods etc.

Here is one guy making 530whp http://www.modularfords.com/forums/...stock-short-b-23628.html?highlight=600whp

615WHP:
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/mustang-gt/my-car-just-made-615-rwhp-62106.html

Stock shortblocks my friend

Those motors are are on borrowed time "my friend". It's just a matter of time before they become expensive paperweights.

LaserRed01GT · Jan 31, 2007

Barrier said:
Haha, this is why Kev = the MAN!

Hey Kev, I'm thinking about doing the wiring in this way, tell me what you think.

EDIT: I would of course be putting in the necessary fuses and hook the arm switch and button in to a power source the way the kit tells me to do it, this is more along the lines of seeing if my diagram from the arm switch to the solenoids will work.

Wes, here is a simpler diagram that will show you the basics of the noid/relay/toggle switch wiring. The purge solenoid will get it's power the same way the N20/Fuel noids do.

View attachment 406683

Chris00GT · Jan 31, 2007

LaserRed01GT said:
Those motors are are on borrowed time "my friend". It's just a matter of time before they become expensive paperweights.

Look at the post date for the 530rwhp, it's been almost two years of borrowed time and before that over 2 years at 460rwhp and she's still going. Granted that the guy in the other link did fail late last year. It's all in how you drive and treat the car. Mine was tuned since day one and I don't beat on the car every day. You also have to consider a blower is less stain on a motor than nitrous. Nitrous is instant while the blower builds boost as the RPM's go up.

LaserRed01GT · Jan 31, 2007

Chris00GT said:
Look at the post date for the 530rwhp, it's been almost two years of borrowed time and before that over 2 years at 460rwhp and she's still going. Granted that the guy in the other link did fail late last year. It's all in how you drive and treat the car. Mine was tuned since day one and I don't beat on the car every day. You also have to consider a blower is less stain on a motor than nitrous. Nitrous is instant while the blower builds boost as the RPM's go up.

So you have a one in a million factory bottom end and although impressive, the other 99.99% of motors out there making that kind of power would be ticking time bombs. It doesn't take beating on the car everyday, it just takes one time going WOT to break parts.

Although 530 on the stock shortblock is nothing to shake a stick at, this is a nitrous thread, and we were talking about the limitations of nitrous on a stock shortblock, not the limitations of a forced induction car making 530 to the tire on a magical one in a million shortblock.

SamMan · Jan 31, 2007

the98stang said:
Just curious- why would a 300 direct port not work on a stock 4.6 2v? There was a guy on modularfords pushing 600+ WHP on the stock block FOR 3 YEARS (with boost)! I know, sounds rediculous, but that's what he claims. Others have tuned these motors for 450-550 on the stock block as well. I know a 300 shot on the stocker is a stupid thing to do, but how is it not possible if others have lasted years with more HP, using a blower?

Theres a big difference between 550whp on boost and the same number on nitrous for the reasons already stated in this thread. I call major BS on anyone spraying anything over 150 on stock internals and it lasting very long if not blowing up the intake right away it wont be long before something lets go inside the shortblock. I know of at least 2 videos on streetfire right now where you can watch it yourself.

My buddy went out and bought a 2001 cobra with the 4v and purchased the basic boltons. He still couldnt keep up with me on spray so promptly went out and bought a NX kit and went straight to a 150 shot. I warned him he was playing with fire and should keep it safer. Two weeks later his bottom end let go. His car is still sitting in the garage while he saves for a built motor.

As for direct port unfortunately its not fullproof either.

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=678166

I am a big advocate of spray but it has its limitations. I have run well over 75 bottles on my engine without a hiccup. If someone has proof of a stock internal engine taking anything over 150 shot and lasting I would love to see it. If someone has proof of anything over 225 wet shot lasting w/o popping an intake I would love to see that.

Chris00GT · Jan 31, 2007

I agree two different animals! If I had nitrous on my 00GT I wouldn't go higher than a 150hp shot and more than likely I would use a 100hp shot most of the time. I also like the plate setups more. I have the NOS big shot kit on my 91LX that sits inbetween the upper and lower intake with a 150hp shot. For safety I have a MSD digital window switch and a ZEX WOT switch. Then on my 88LX I have the NX nitrous plate with a 200hp shot, but is controlled by my MSD digital 7.

LaserRed01GT · Jan 31, 2007

Chris00GT said:
I agree two different animals! If I had nitrous on my 00GT I wouldn't go higher than a 150hp shot and more than likely I would use a 100hp shot most of the time. I also like the plate setups more. I have the NOS big shot kit on my 91LX that sits inbetween the upper and lower intake with a 150hp shot. For safety I have a MSD digital window switch and a ZEX WOT switch. Then on my 88LX I have the NX nitrous plate with a 200hp shot, but is controlled by my MSD digital 7.

Sounds like fun! I used a 2 stage Wilson plate dry system on my 97 Z28. It was a 410 HP shot through a hybrid/custom Brodix 1801 intake and 4500 dominator 2000 CFM TB. Jeff Prock flowed everything for me and it work really nice. The 1801 looked just like the previous LT4 intake that was on there.

View attachment 406665

The 383 LT4 that's in my 97 T/A had a direct port setup, but it's now getting a blown BBC and is all gutted to get the cage in. I am looking for another notch as we speak, know any good rollers? And my family and friends wonder why I am not married yet!

hotmustang331 · Jan 31, 2007

For the blower cars guys, ITS ALL IN THE TUNE!
Same with N20 ofcourse...but like said cylinder pressure just becomes too much after a while.

I think Chriss00GTs car is staying togethor due to the tune. There are plenty of 05+ stangs pushing WELL over 500RWHP and those clowns are spinning them to 6800RPMs. From what I have seen thus far, their bottom end is the same as ours...besides the pistons, which are actually weaker.

No pre ignition or detonation (detonation being much more common IMO) and the stock motor is good for a while....thats the key.

the98stang · Feb 1, 2007

LaserRed01GT said:
Those motors are are on borrowed time "my friend". It's just a matter of time before they become expensive paperweights.

Oh, but what happened to "Nobody has made 600 RWHP on the stock bottom end and had it last for years. That is total bull."

I never said they weren't on borrowed time. Plus "borrowed time" is a broad statement. I guess you think "borrowed time" means 2-3 years?

I don't care if only a few blocks are capable/have handled that kind of power. The fact is, IT'S POSSIBLE.

LaserRed01GT · Feb 1, 2007

the98stang said:
Oh, but what happened to "Nobody has made 600 RWHP on the stock bottom end and had it last for years. That is total bull."

I never said they weren't on borrowed time. Plus "borrowed time" is a broad statement. I guess you think "borrowed time" means 2-3 years?

I don't care if only a few blocks are capable/have handled that kind of power. The fact is, IT'S POSSIBLE.

You do not take one VERY unique instance of somebody defying all the odds and try to tell everybody that if one motor out of a million can do it, well then so can everybody else. It doesn’t work that way unfortunately. We all tip our hat to Chris for pulling this off, but it in no way shows that this is, nor should be common practice. Like I said, 99.99% of the stock bottom end 4.6 2 valves are on borrowed time over 450 RWHP. It’s just the nature of the beast.

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