No Crank, now fine, or is it?

[JustA5.0]

Sorry for the length, but I want to include everything for your expertise/opinions.

Went to storage yesterday to get the stang out for spring. Brought my booster pack with me, as the battery wasn't trickle charged and might not have had enough juice. Go to start the car, volt gauge (stock) reads well below it's usual, I hear the fuel pump prime, no crank nothing. Put on the booster pack, fuel pump primes again, but no crank. I turn the headlights on, couldn't tell if they were lit fully as it was daylight/glare, try to start the car they didn't dim at least.

I figure this ol battery's had it, leave the storage to buy a new battery (got it tested in store, 12.97v). Get the new battery in, again same thing, primes, no crank, headlights constant power. So me, up in the boonies, checked a few things I could think of; no water or dampness under the dizzy cap, plug #1 not fouled or wet, grounds appeared ok, battery cables showing age but clean and no corrosion on them. Still obviously the car wouldn't start, and got it towed home where I could look at it more today and do research. I've killed the battery before, but not once in three years has the car not cranked over, so I wasn't familiar with all the tricks and checks.

I read jrichker's no crank checklist (not his cranks but won't start version) and moved on to the solenoid tests. Jumpered the big lugs, sparked and the starter kicked over, tested the small lug and jumped it with the big lug and the starter was clicking away. To my understanding this meant the starter, solenoid, and power wiring was functional. I then put the key to on (admittedly I did not check to see if the car would start on it's own), and jumpered the big lugs again and voila the car fired right up without hesitation. Drove the car around the block to see if it would stall out or try to, and to my suprise it seemed to have more oomph then ever before . The volt gauge (though stock yes I know) was at it's highest and most stable reading, turned the heater on full blast, headlights on, and it barely moved the gauge (with the old battery it would drop right to the middle, or a tad below).

Now the car is starting up problem free with the key. I talked to a buddy mechanic and his thoughts were the starter had seized up over the winter, or the starter is possibly starting to go. I plan on replacing the battery cables (they are the crappy two stud on top design) anyways, and am doing a 3G alternator upgrade and it's associated ground wire increase. Was thinking of letting the car sit for a week as it's just the weekend toy, and see if it starts in a weeks time. What do you guys think, just a seized up starter and I'll probably be fine, or should I do some more tests (lost my multimeter so I didn't get readings of anything)?

P.S. Electrics are not my speciality, try to be clear for me

 

[HISSIN50]

If the car cranked strong when you jumped the solenoid lugs (the two large ones), and it continues to do this like clockwork, that suggests a solenoid or starter interlock issue.
If you put a test light on the solenoid trigger post (on the solenoid. The little tiny wire's post) and try to start it, does the test light illuminate? Does the engine crank? If the light illuminates but it doesnt crank, the interlock circuit should be ok.

If the test light doesn't illuminate, your clutch safety switch, ignition switch and interlock wiring are things to check.

Good luck.

 

[5.0Droptop]

I would recomend disconnecting the battery while storing the car. I would think that long term setting would encourage electrical connetions to corrode.

 

[JustA5.0]

If the car cranked strong when you jumped the solenoid lugs (the two large ones), and it continues to do this like clockwork, that suggests a solenoid or starter interlock issue.
If you put a test light on the solenoid trigger post (on the solenoid. The little tiny wire's post) and try to start it, does the test light illuminate? Does the engine crank? If the light illuminates but it doesnt crank, the interlock circuit should be ok.

If the test light doesn't illuminate, your clutch safety switch, ignition switch and interlock wiring are things to check.

Good luck.

My tests on the solenoid were just with a screwdriver. However, from reading jrichkers posts I was under the impression that; A) Jumping the big lugs and if it cranked the starter and power wiring is good - B) Jumping the smaller lug with the big lug and if it cranked meant the solenoid was good and problems were elsewhere in the circuit. You're saying by putting on a test light if it lights but doesn't crank it's the solenoid, but if it doesn't light it's clutch saftey, ignition etc... and I'm guessing if it lights and cranks that means the solenoid is ok but could still be the clutch safety switch?

What is the interlock circuit? Are we talking about wiring or is that a function in the starter itself?

How do I checked the ignition switch, clutch safety switch ( 5) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.)? Do I run a wire in parallel at each switch and if the car starts it would mean that switch was faulty?

Could anyone comment on the likelyhood of a seized starter part, in my first post?

I would recomend disconnecting the battery while storing the car. I would think that long term setting would encourage electrical connetions to corrode.

Battery was pulled from the car last fall. I simply never trickled charged it to ensure it still had enough volts in her. Mainly cuz it was old anyways and figured I'd need another batt sooner than later.

 

[HISSIN50]

You're saying by putting on a test light if it lights but doesn't crank it's the solenoid, but if it doesn't light it's clutch saftey, ignition etc...

Yep. If the test light illuminates, you know your signal is reaching the solenoid but something from the solenoid forward is acting up.
If the test light doesnt illuminate, the solenoid couldn't start the car if it wanted because the let's start the car signal isnt being received by the solenoid.

and I'm guessing if it lights and cranks that means the solenoid is ok but could still be the clutch safety switch?

Nope. If the test light illuminates, the clutch switch is fine. Power goes from the ig switch to the clutch switch and to the solenoid. The switch has to be ok for power to reach the solenoid.

What is the interlock circuit? Are we talking about wiring or is that a function in the starter itself?

I use it to refer to the control side of the starter circuit (ig switch to CSS to solenoid).

How do I checked the ignition switch, clutch safety switch ( 5) Remember to check the ignition switch, neutral safety switch on auto trans and the clutch safety switch on manual trans cars. If they are good, then you have wiring problems.)? Do I run a wire in parallel at each switch and if the car starts it would mean that switch was faulty?

If you have to backtrack from the solenoid (the test light doesn't illuminate), go to the CSS and check for 'cranking power' into the switch. Then depress the pedal and check for power out of the switch.

If no power is even reaching the switch, go to the ignition switch and test the 'cranking' wire (pink/white or something like that. I'd have to look it up).

Good luck.

 

[MYSC351]

Keep in mind as long as it's operating as designed you're going to get good readings...

If it where me I'd throw a starter solenoid on it and call it a day. You said it worked fine after you jumped the solenoid right?

 

[JustA5.0]

Yep. If the test light illuminates, you know your signal is reaching the solenoid but something from the solenoid forward is acting up.

Let's assume it does light, I would then check between the lugs and the connections where the wires land? Light illuminates at each point, solenoid is fine. If the light doesn't illuminate between different points the solenoid is likely faulty, if it doesn't light at just one point, that length of wire would be faulty?

If it where me I'd throw a starter solenoid on it and call it a day. You said it worked fine after you jumped the solenoid right?

Yes I started the car multiple times on it's own afterwards, will check in the morning again. I should add that along with new battery cables as it'd be cheap insurance anyways (probably an original solenoid on there).

 

[HISSIN50]

Let's assume it does light, I would then check between the lugs and the connections where the wires land? Light illuminates at each point, solenoid is fine. If the light doesn't illuminate between different points the solenoid is likely faulty, if it doesn't light at just one point, that length of wire would be faulty?

If the test light illuminates, check the starter lug (generally it's closest to the front of the car). It should also illuminate while crankng.

Note: The other lug is connected to the battery so it's always hot.




If the trigger shows 12 volts while cranking but the starter cable doesn't show 12 volts while cranking, the solenoid is likely bad.

 

[JustA5.0]

Thanks for the help, much clearer now. I'll send you a pm if I don't understand something while testing.

 

[MYSC351]

Thanks for the help, much clearer now. I'll send you a pm if I don't understand something while testing.

I want to make sure you understand.. You can test all day. As long as it's not acting up there's no point in testing. Your solenoid will test good if it's currently starting. Even if the solenoid is intermittantly bad.

 

[JustA5.0]

Yes I realize it would be futile to test now, with the car starting problem free. I meant I'd pm Hissin (cuz he's always around) if the car soon has starting issues and I didn't understand something. I also know you prolly think it's the solenoid based on what I've described here by jumping it.