no fuel to shrader valve
- Thread starter new2mustang
- Start date
trinity_gt
10 Year Member
Check the inertia switch in the trunk. It's designed to shut off power to the fuel pump in the event of an accident but it can be accidentally triggered otherwise. You reset it by pushing the button in. It's in the trunk on the left (driver's) side behind the trim.
When did these symptoms begin? Any sort of an accident or bump or ... ?
When did these symptoms begin? Any sort of an accident or bump or ... ?
No accident or bump of any kind. I did check the ifs switch and it is ok I guess all of this started about 2 weeks ago when it got fairly cold for this area. The battery went dead so I charged it car started and I drove it for a few miles and took it home. It was pretty low on gas which I know you really shouldnt do but I got it home and pulled into my garage and it stumbled a little bit rpms rose and fell and it died. So I started it back up and it seemed to idle ok so I shut it off and left it alone. I went out 2 days later to go put gas in it and it just turns over like normal but nothing else. Had the battery checked and it is ok seems like I can hear the fuel pump prime but doesn't seem as loud as normal. I did pull off the fuel line inlet to the fuel filter and tried to prime the pump but no fuel came out. I know thhis is somewhat of bad thing to do but I did it anyway LOL. Any other electrical things to look at first before digging into the fuel pump?
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
99-04 crank with no-start check list
First, confirm that ALL fuses in the engine bay and driver's kick panel are good.
Is the battery is fully charged and the battery terminals clean, corrosion free and tight?
What is the condition of the fuel filter? If in doubt, replace it.
Turn the key on but do not crank. Does the theft light go out after a 3 second "prove out"? If not, STOP and find out why.
Does the theft light come on during cranking? If so, STOP and find out why.
Turn the key on/pause/off several times without cranking. Listen for the fuel pump to run each time. Do you hear the fuel pump run? If not, STOP and find out why.
If cycling the key on/pause/off improves starting, likely this is a symptom of fuel pressure leak down. Sources of fuel pressure leak down include FP check valve, bad/weak fuel pump, leaky fuel injectors, bad FP damper(return-less), bad FP regulator (return), bad FP sensor.
Hold the throttle half way open. Does this improve starting? If so, suspect a bad IAC.
Is the MAF clean?
Are there ANY vacuum leaks? Don't cut corners here. Even a small vacuum can cause problems.
Note, if the fuel pump primes each time the key is turned on and the fuel pressure is not between 40-60 PSI (motor off), then there is either something blocking the pick up, water/debris in the tank, the tank is empty, or the fuel pump is bad.
First, confirm that ALL fuses in the engine bay and driver's kick panel are good.
Is the battery is fully charged and the battery terminals clean, corrosion free and tight?
What is the condition of the fuel filter? If in doubt, replace it.
Turn the key on but do not crank. Does the theft light go out after a 3 second "prove out"? If not, STOP and find out why.
Does the theft light come on during cranking? If so, STOP and find out why.
Turn the key on/pause/off several times without cranking. Listen for the fuel pump to run each time. Do you hear the fuel pump run? If not, STOP and find out why.
If cycling the key on/pause/off improves starting, likely this is a symptom of fuel pressure leak down. Sources of fuel pressure leak down include FP check valve, bad/weak fuel pump, leaky fuel injectors, bad FP damper(return-less), bad FP regulator (return), bad FP sensor.
Hold the throttle half way open. Does this improve starting? If so, suspect a bad IAC.
Is the MAF clean?
Are there ANY vacuum leaks? Don't cut corners here. Even a small vacuum can cause problems.
Note, if the fuel pump primes each time the key is turned on and the fuel pressure is not between 40-60 PSI (motor off), then there is either something blocking the pick up, water/debris in the tank, the tank is empty, or the fuel pump is bad.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
You didn't answer the question about hearing the fuel pump with the key on.
The IFS is in the trunk. See the owner's manual. There must be power in/out of the IFS anytime the key is on. This test is vital as all follow-up tests will be based upon the results of this test.
Test for +12 volts at the IFS with the key on. Be sure to use a good ground.
If +12 volts at the IFS, then there is a problem in the FPDM, fuel pump, PCM, or wiring harness fault.
If no voltage, then the problem is upstream. Bad CCRM, blown fuse, bad ignition switch, or wiring harness fault.
OBTW, how do you know that there are no leaky fuel injectors? Are you expecting them to leak outside of the motor? That's not how it works. The injectors leak internally. Fuel injectors need to hold pressure when the engine is off. A leaky fuel injector will allow a few drops to leak from the tip. The leak will never be seen.
The IFS is in the trunk. See the owner's manual. There must be power in/out of the IFS anytime the key is on. This test is vital as all follow-up tests will be based upon the results of this test.
Test for +12 volts at the IFS with the key on. Be sure to use a good ground.
If +12 volts at the IFS, then there is a problem in the FPDM, fuel pump, PCM, or wiring harness fault.
If no voltage, then the problem is upstream. Bad CCRM, blown fuse, bad ignition switch, or wiring harness fault.
OBTW, how do you know that there are no leaky fuel injectors? Are you expecting them to leak outside of the motor? That's not how it works. The injectors leak internally. Fuel injectors need to hold pressure when the engine is off. A leaky fuel injector will allow a few drops to leak from the tip. The leak will never be seen.
I do believe I can hear the pump priming but it sounds really weak if thats what I am hearing. i can hear a series of clicks some from the passenger fender well and another from where the IFS switch is. i understand that you can't see a leaky injector but just a question if they were leaking would the motor not at least fire? And would there not be some pressure at the shrader valve? I am just asking you guys know a hell of alot more than myself. My problem is mainly diagnosing and electrical stuff I am just about cluless in these areas lol.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
IMO, you are trying to read too much into this. Some of the questions are designed to gather information as to which direction to focus. They don't mean that's what your problem is.
IMO, if the pump RUNS, then the fuse, CCRM, ignition sw, FPDM, and wiring are most likely OK. So it doesn't make sense to spend time looking upstream of the IFS.
Check out post #2 in the thread below. The car in quesiton is a V6, but that doesn't matter. The tests are likely overkill as the odds favor a bad fuel pump. Dropping the fuel tank should be considered as your next action. Once the tank is down, additional trouble shooting can be done. For example, it's possible the pump is OK but there is debris blocking the pick-up. Or it's possible there is a pin hole leak in one of the lines within the tank.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/824672-fuel-delivery-issues.html
IMO, if the pump RUNS, then the fuse, CCRM, ignition sw, FPDM, and wiring are most likely OK. So it doesn't make sense to spend time looking upstream of the IFS.
Check out post #2 in the thread below. The car in quesiton is a V6, but that doesn't matter. The tests are likely overkill as the odds favor a bad fuel pump. Dropping the fuel tank should be considered as your next action. Once the tank is down, additional trouble shooting can be done. For example, it's possible the pump is OK but there is debris blocking the pick-up. Or it's possible there is a pin hole leak in one of the lines within the tank.
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/824672-fuel-delivery-issues.html
Well as a last resort effort I used a little bit of starter fluid and it started and idled ok. It was a little bit rough and if you give it a good bit of gas it hesitates a bit. So I am guessing definatley the fuel pump is weak. What do you guys think? i need to get a fuel pressure tester and see what it says.
The problem was the fuel pump driver module FPDM $108 bucks from Ford. And I picked up a new problem code p0201 injector circuit open/injector circuit malfunction. i guess that would be a misfire on cylinder#1 so it's gotta be a coil or injector. That should be an easy fix if the code comes back after the FPDM is replaced.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
If this were my car, I would have done the tests called for in the thread. When the pump ran OK after being powered directly, this would point to a FPDM or PCM problem. However, it's been my experience that most ppl don't want to do all of the tests needed to positively narrow down the issue. Instead going with the odds and just change out parts.
So how did you narrow down the problem to the FPDM?
Did you parts swap or did you take it to the dealer?
So how did you narrow down the problem to the FPDM?
Did you parts swap or did you take it to the dealer?
After I got it started(post#10) and it was able to idle decent but not perfect. I figured it would throw a code up and it did so I used a scanner and read the code simple. As far as doing all the electrical diagnosing tasks I hate to say it but some of that stuff is a bit over my head especially electrical problems. But the mechanical work I can do pretty well just more of the older stuff. As far as the dealer goes that is the very last thing I would do.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
P0201 is an unusual DTC. It points directly to an electrical fault in the injector circuits. It is not a common misfire.
It is possible the DTC is related to the repair/replacement activities concerning the FPDM. If so, the DTC can be ignored. Which I hope is the case.
Have you checked the fuel pressure sensor? Is the vacuum reference connected and leak free?
It's also rare for a FPDM to fail and not blow fuses.
In anycase, looks like you are making progress. Good luck.
It is possible the DTC is related to the repair/replacement activities concerning the FPDM. If so, the DTC can be ignored. Which I hope is the case.
Have you checked the fuel pressure sensor? Is the vacuum reference connected and leak free?
It's also rare for a FPDM to fail and not blow fuses.
In anycase, looks like you are making progress. Good luck.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
Unless I am asleep at the switch, you never really answered the question HOW you determined it's a bad FPDM. Wouldn't it be a shame to go to all of that effort only to find out it's a bad fuel pump?
Lol you must have been asleep. I got it started and was able to get the code off of it being as I had the battery disconnected all the codes were gone. So I had to get it started to be able to do that and it will idle. I guess I could drive it but it would be rough so the fuel pump does work just isn't getting the right signal code p1233 FPDM offline is the code and p0201 injector circuit malfunction/injector circuit open.
wmburns
SN Certified Technician
For a P1233, I would never replace anything until power was confirmed through the IFS. (possible to infer the fuel pump has power becuase the car runs).
For the P0201, I'm afraid this is a bad fuel injector driver in the PCM. IMO, this could also be wiring related from the injector back to the PCM.
The thing both DTC's have in common is the PCM.
>>
P0201 through P0212 - Cylinder #1 through Cylinder #12 Injector Circuits
The comprehensive component monitor (CCM) monitors the operation of the fuel injector drivers in the PCM. The test fails when the fuel injector does not operate electrically even though the harness assembly and fuel injectors test satisfactorily.
Faulty fuel injector driver within the PCM.
PID Data Monitor INJ1F-INJ12F fault flags = YES.
P1233 - Fuel System Disabled or Offline
Inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch needs to be reset
Open FPDM ground circuit
Open or shorted FPM circuit
Damaged IFS switch
Damaged FPDM
Damaged PCM
Also for Escort/Tracer and Mustang:
Open FPDM PWR circuit
Open B+ circuit to constant control relay module (CCRM) pin 11
Open ground to CCRM pin 18 (Mustang)
Damaged CCRM
The PCM expects to see one of the following duty cycle signals from the FPDM on the FPM circuit: 1) 50% (500 msec on, 500 msec off), all OK. 2) 25% (250 msec on, 750 msec off), FPDM did not receive a fuel pump (FP) duty cycle command from the PCM, or the duty cycle that was received was invalid. 3) 75% (750 msec ON, 250 OFF), the FPDM has detected a fault in the circuits between the FPDM and the fuel pump.
For the P0201, I'm afraid this is a bad fuel injector driver in the PCM. IMO, this could also be wiring related from the injector back to the PCM.
The thing both DTC's have in common is the PCM.
>>
P0201 through P0212 - Cylinder #1 through Cylinder #12 Injector Circuits
The comprehensive component monitor (CCM) monitors the operation of the fuel injector drivers in the PCM. The test fails when the fuel injector does not operate electrically even though the harness assembly and fuel injectors test satisfactorily.
Faulty fuel injector driver within the PCM.
PID Data Monitor INJ1F-INJ12F fault flags = YES.
P1233 - Fuel System Disabled or Offline
Inertia fuel shutoff (IFS) switch needs to be reset
Open FPDM ground circuit
Open or shorted FPM circuit
Damaged IFS switch
Damaged FPDM
Damaged PCM
Also for Escort/Tracer and Mustang:
Open FPDM PWR circuit
Open B+ circuit to constant control relay module (CCRM) pin 11
Open ground to CCRM pin 18 (Mustang)
Damaged CCRM
The PCM expects to see one of the following duty cycle signals from the FPDM on the FPM circuit: 1) 50% (500 msec on, 500 msec off), all OK. 2) 25% (250 msec on, 750 msec off), FPDM did not receive a fuel pump (FP) duty cycle command from the PCM, or the duty cycle that was received was invalid. 3) 75% (750 msec ON, 250 OFF), the FPDM has detected a fault in the circuits between the FPDM and the fuel pump.
Well back to the drawing board for me fellas.lol I replaced the FPDM with no luck same problem. I am a total amateur when it comes to computer or electrical issues. I don't see how it can idle with no fuel pressure at the shrader valve. How is this possible? While it was running I pushed the valve in and absolutely nothing came out. I know I can change the fuel pump if needed just don't want to do it for nothing. lol
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