No spark, Please help

sln583

20+ Year Stangneter :roc</strong><span class=
Nov 13, 2004
68
2
9
Quincy, MA
I got the engine back in the car but I cant get it to start reliably. there seems to be an intermitent problem were Im not getting a spark.

I have replaced the distributor, TFI module and tried a spare coil I had lying around.

A couple of times ive managed to get a spark but there doesnt seem to be any rhime or reason to when. I got it started once to set the timing at ten degrees with a timing light. The fuel pump is working fine.

I am testing for spark with a spare plug in the coil wire placed where I can see it from the drivers seat when im cranking it over. Its worked acouple of times but just when I think the problem is solved it wont start again.

when I had the engine out I cleaned all the ground wires in the engine bay and made sure to reconnect them.

this realy has me stumped and I hate to keep throwing parts at the problem.

The car is an 88 california 5.0

If I pick up a volt meter tomorrow at sears, What should I check.

Any advice you guys have will be appreciated
 
Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected Mustangs

1.) Remove push on connector from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch on. Place car in neutral or Park. Remove coil wire from distributor & and hold 3/8” away from engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.
No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD or Crane ignition box if so equipped
B.) Coil
C.) TFI module
D.) PIP sensor in distributor
E.) ECC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires
F.) Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire.
H.) Computer

See the following links for wiring diagrams...

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model cars

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model cars


2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.
Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 5-20 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the ECC test connector and jump the connector in the lower RH corner to ground. See http://www.mustangworks.com/article...c-iv_codes.html for a description of the test connector. If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In pinch you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have.

No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay. The fuse links live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.
F.) Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove vacuum line from regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while pump is running.

Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.

A.) A Noid light available from Autozone, is one way to test the injector wiring.
B.) I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.

a.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
b.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).
c.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the ECC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.


4.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.

A.) Failed IAB (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently).
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
 
Thanks, Ive found your post before and I am deffinatly not getting a spark at the coil wire.

I have replaced most of the stuff on your list.

When you say check for 12 volts at a wire, do I check it while cranking, does one probe of the voltmeter go to the wire and the other go to ground,

sorry if this is simplistic but im not very experienced at doing this kind of thing.
 
sln583 said:
Thanks, Ive found your post before and I am deffinatly not getting a spark at the coil wire.

I have replaced most of the stuff on your list.

When you say check for 12 volts at a wire, do I check it while cranking, does one probe of the voltmeter go to the wire and the other go to ground,

sorry if this is siplistic but im not very experienced at doing this kind of thing.

Test with ignition switch on, no crank. One probe to the item under test, one probe to ground.
 
Thanks for your help jrichker.

I have battery voltage (12volts) at the red injector wire. I would assume this to mean that the ECC relay and the fusible links are good.

I have battery voltage at both the positive and negative side of the coil KOEO.

How should the voltage on the negative side of the coil read on the voltmeter while cranking. mine drops to about 9-10 volts and stays constant. does this mean the coil isnt grounding causing it not to fire. If this is caused by a bad coil ground, where exactly is the coil ground, so i can test it and clean it.

thanks for your patience, I usually find the info I need by searching the boards but this is stumping me.
 
The TFI module provides the ground path for the coil.

Disconnect the TFI and ground the gray wire. Then measure the voltage at the negative side of the coil. You should see less than 1 volt.

0900823d80167163.gif



AutoZone wiring diagrams

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/16/71/3c/0900823d8016713c.jsp for 79-88 model Mustangs

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/19/59/5a/0900823d8019595a.jsp for 89-93 model Mustangs

http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1d/db/3c/0900823d801ddb3c.jsp for 94-98 model Mustangs
 
the gray wire is the one from the coil to the middle of the distributor cap, correct?

I ground that to the negative side of the battery and disconected the harness at the TFI.

Both KOEO and cranking the negative side of the coil has battery voltage.

did i do this correctly and if so what does it mean
thanks again for your patience.
 
sln583 said:
the gray wire is the one from the coil to the middle of the distributor cap, correct?

I ground that to the negative side of the battery and disconected the harness at the TFI.

Both KOEO and cranking the negative side of the coil has battery voltage.

did i do this correctly and if so what does it mean
thanks again for your patience.
NO.

See the diagram I attached to my orginal post. The gray wire goes from the low voltage side of the coil to the TFI module. The TFI module provides a ground signal on the gray wire to fire the coil. The gray wire that connects to the TFI module is the one you want to ground and then measure the voltage at the coil.

The wire from the coil to the center of the distributor cap is the high voltage wire that supplies the spark for the spark plugs.
 
I fixed It.

Assuming you were talking about the green/yellow wire from the negative side of the coil to the TFI ( I couldnt find a gray wire) I checked the voltage at the TFI and I was only getting 1.5 volts.

If I was getting 12 volts at the coil I figured I should be getting 12 volts at the end of the same wire at the TFI connector.

I started following the green/yellow wire from the coil and found a thick section wrapped in electrical tape. under the tape was a butt connector with the wire disconnected from it.

at some point in the cars life, the coil wires were cut ( probably for an aftermarket coil) and then someone reatached the factory connector.

me yanking on the coil wire must have pulled it out of the butt connector.
Sometimes when i moved the wires trying to diagnose the problem, the wire would make contact and the car would start, causing the problem to be intermitent.

Im so happy its fixed I dont evan care that i spent a chunk of my restoration budget on a new distributor and module

Thanks alot :cheers: Jrichker for your help