Engine No start after timing chain replacement??

ratio411 · Jan 12, 2013

mikestang63 said:
I don't get why people are so quick to add an aftermarket ignition box or coil to stock or near stock applications. The stock coil and ignition have worked on cars that I have made well over 400hp. Ford makes some pretty good parts OEM.

That's why you see so many damn MSD 6's boxes for sale. They are prone to failure.

Alot of MSDs products are based on stock Ford technology too, just dolled up to look fancier.
Stock Ford electronic ignitions have always been good stuff, beginning all the way back in 74.

I have used MSD stuff too, but I am much more picky nowadays. The more you know about it, the more you realize that you don't gain much replacing a NY Strip with a T-bone (or vice versa if you like....).

ImportSlayer347 · Jan 13, 2013

So if the chain is off by one tooth, I will not get any spark?

CarMichael Angelo · Jan 13, 2013

ImportSlayer347 said:
So if the chain is off by one tooth, I will not get any spark?

You could have enough spark to bring Frankenstein back from the dead........ if the chain is off one tooth, (or more) it'll never start....... For you to have two dead MSD boxes (one of them new) and still have a no spark when it was working makes me suspect that you may have something wired wrong/unplugged, or are going about the whole troubleshoot process incorrectly.
But until you confirm that you have done the right thing under that timing cover,...I'd quit trying to reinvent the wheel.
If you check the chain and you find out that when the the engine is on TDC and those two dots are where they are supposed to be, not only will you be able to have piece of mind that your method has still kept the two gears in the proper relationship to each other, but you'll be able to truly move on to some other of the multitude of coincidental no start issues you are having as a result of deciding to replace the timing chain.

And tell me to fck off at the same time.

ImportSlayer347 · Jan 13, 2013

The MSD box is working. I had a loose ground in the harness. So I got the box to fire the coil. It looks like when I pulled the harness off, the ground wire pin pushed out of place. So I have been told that it is either the pickup in the distributor, the ignition module itself, or the ECM since the box is not getting a trigger signal. I know the motor was set at 14 degrees of advance timing before the teardown. Can I put a timing light on the number one plug and see if the timing has changed? Then I will know for sure if the timing is off. I really don't wanna tear it all apart again unless I know I have to move the chain.

gearheadboy · Jan 13, 2013

Put it on TDC and see where the rotor end up.

jrichker · Jan 13, 2013

gearheadboy said:
Put it on TDC and see where the rotor end up.

You missed a step...The timing pointer will point to TDC twice in the 2 turns of the crank it takes to complete a power cycle in a 4 stroke engine.

Remove #1 spark plug, put your finger is the spark plug hole and crank or turn the engine until you feel compression. Then see if the pointer is near TDC and check the position of the distributor rotor.

gearheadboy · Jan 13, 2013

Ya I thought about that. I left that out hoping he would reply where the rotor was pointing. Being the valve timing is off I wasn't sure how much compression it would have approaching TDC. I figured I would tell him to spin it over a second time to see if he achieved #1 on the cap.

Bill Gordon · Jan 13, 2013

Checking TDC is easy by yourself with a remote start switch and compression tester. I would start there and see where you are at. It will confirm where the timimg gears are in relation to each other. Only takes a few minutes...

ImportSlayer347 · Jan 13, 2013

Well I have now confirmed the TFI module on the distributor is good but still no spark.

clement · Jan 13, 2013

i usually just pull the valve covers off and turn it over and watch my rockers to see when both lobes are on the base circle. since there will be a point the intake closes ABDC on the compression stroke and the exhaust wont open until BBDC on the power stroke.

ImportSlayer347 · Jan 14, 2013

Now I have someone to help with a second set o f eyes. I pulled the distributor cap off and had them crank it over while I watched the rotor button...it is not spinning at all. So I either broke the chain or cam?

jrichker · Jan 14, 2013

Are you sure the distributor is seated all the way down against the engine block??

ratio411 · Jan 14, 2013

ImportSlayer347 said:
Now I have someone to help with a second set o f eyes. I pulled the distributor cap off and had them crank it over while I watched the rotor button...it is not spinning at all. So I either broke the chain or cam?

Sounds like the timing set is not spinning the cam, which is not spinning the distributor.
Someone left out the cam sprocket pin or crank key.

CarMichael Angelo · Jan 14, 2013

jrichker said:
Are you sure the distributor is seated all the way down against the engine block??

What?...... I thought he only replaced the timing chain. Now he's pulled and /or clocked the distributor?

ratio411 said:
Sounds like the timing set is not spinning the cam, which is not spinning the distributor.
Someone left out the cam sprocket pin or crank key.

Someone?

ratio411 · Jan 14, 2013

madmike1157 said:
Someone?

Well, it's not about pointing fingers, but rather getting his cam spinning.

CarMichael Angelo · Jan 15, 2013

ratio411 said:
Well, it's not about pointing fingers, but rather getting his cam spinning.

Well just the same, had someone taken the 1 hour to pull the timing cover 3 pages ago, he'd have a spinning cam today.

ImportSlayer347 · Jan 15, 2013

I'm pulling the timing cover today to see what's wrong inside. I'm also going to line up the cam and crank properly this time now that I know what to do. I have to go to the Zone to get the harmonic balancer tool. This is frustrating because I want the car to run again, but I am learning from this and I will never make these mistakes again. Thanks for all the help on this.

ratio411 · Jan 15, 2013

ImportSlayer347 said:
I'm pulling the timing cover today to see what's wrong inside. I'm also going to line up the cam and crank properly this time now that I know what to do. I have to go to the Zone to get the harmonic balancer tool. This is frustrating because I want the car to run again, but I am learning from this and I will never make these mistakes again. Thanks for all the help on this.

I hate this sort of thing too, but every breakdown teaches me something new.
Gotta look at the bright side of life... What doesn't kill you just makes you stronger.
Good luck!

ImportSlayer347 · Jan 15, 2013

Broken chain. Its a mess in there. The thrust plate broke too. Sheared the bolts right off. The sprockets are still good but the chain is destroyed. I used a magnetic pickup tool to get all the pieces out of the oil pan. Now I have to get the thrust plate bolts out of the block with an easy-out. I need to get a new chain, cam thrust plate, and thrust plate bolts.

What would cause the bolts on the thrust plate to shear off? The sprocket never came off the bolt was holding it in place.

srtthis · Jan 15, 2013

everything turn freely?

and at this point id pull the motor and pull the pan. no way you'll ever get all the parts out of the pan with a magnetic pick up tool

Engine No start after timing chain replacement??

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