We used to run that in an old '78 Landcruiser. Could actually feel a difference in that ~250 cu. in. inline 6 when the bottle was refilled ... and again when it ran dry.Water/Meth injection is a perfect octane booster. ...although this is probably above and beyond what you're asking. Methanol injection FTW!
Water/Meth injection is a perfect octane booster. ...although this is probably above and beyond what you're asking. Methanol injection FTW!
Not necessarily. Ever notice how some engines (particularly smaller displacement engines ... and I would consider 4.6L on the small side of the scale) feel like they're pulling stronger when it's been raining? That's because the air is cooler and more dense. The trick to a water/methanol injection system is to induce it as a very fine vapor upstream from the carbu ... er, I mean throttle body. The old cheap systems which merely used a vacuum draw directly into the throat of the carb(s) weren't as effective. We had a porous ceramic venturi with a K&N style filter with about 2 feet of hose feeding the carburetor. We ran 25% methanol (wood alcohol), but continued to get decent results using water alone....and as equally useless unless you're tuned for it.
Not necessarily. Ever notice how some engines (particularly smaller displacement engines ... and I would consider 4.6L on the small side of the scale) feel like they're pulling stronger when it's been raining? That's because the air is cooler and more dense. The trick to a water/methanol injection system is to induce it as a very fine vapor upstream from the carbu ... er, I mean throttle body. The old cheap systems which merely used a vacuum draw directly into the throat of the carb(s) weren't as effective. We had a porous ceramic venturi with a K&N style filter with about 2 feet of hose feeding the carburetor. We ran 25% methanol (wood alcohol), but continued to get decent results using water alone.
...and as equally useless unless you're tuned for it.
I respectfully disagree my man. Water/Meth is going to allow for consistency over time if you don't tune for it, plus it's going to help keep your engine clean...and therefore preserving engine life if used the right way. It's a safety net. It's that simple. If you do tune for it, you will see some serious gains. You just have to be smart about what fluids you use if you don't tune for it, and if you do tune for it....well...make sure you always have juice in the tank.
My setup is purely for safety at the track; road course. When temps go up all around, engine performance goes down. My setup keeps my motor running optimally 20+ minutes into a session that is about to end and I've finally tracked down that M or Porsche or vette or some other hopped up ride I've been wanting to get around...as an example.
And this is my personal experience with it. All positives. Only random horror stories I've heard are from dumbasses who don't know what they're doing...and you will see that in any profession, any hobby.
That cool. I've had this debate before so here's your challenge. Hit the track again when you've got the time. A dyno would be even better. Run a couple of laps with water injection on then again without it. Unless your motor is already sitting on the verge of detonation or your cooling system inadequate and relying on water injection, then you are hurting performance by just spraying.
I wish I'd kept every dyno print sheet I'd ever had or I could post a back to back reference for you of a 60 HP loss on a 480 RW stroker running a positive displacement blower. Frankly, the tuner and I were both shocked. lol As tuning went though... the final result was total net gain of some 87 HP. In this particular case the total difference between tuned and un-tuned was over 140 HP!
Granted this is a very specific app that I'm talking about here and gains/losses will scale differently for combination X. The moral of the story though... If you're not changing anything other than just slapping the injection system in on a gas motor, you are most likely LOSING HP. Those few exceptions might be combos that are already tuned to the ragged edge and beyond that tuned, sweet spot I mentioned above. I HAVE seen a couple applications where meth netted a gain out of the box. NONE of those were stock or OEM combos/tunes.
Two of my sparkplugs actually unwound themselves a couple times after track weekends. A little reading into that turned up that detonation might be the cause.
I understand your points, and they're well taken...and I apologize if I was generating some confusion.
I threw up those dyno numbers because I thought that WAS the point you were trying to make: that just slapping a water-meth kit is going to do absolutely nothing without a tune? And like I mentioned, my test was almost wholly inconclusive and still ongoing lol...and it looks like I'll have to wait before I can get my ride back up on a legit dyno to find out. Don't hold your breath for the results though, my man...don't know when that's happening.
You said it was useless without a tune, and that's what I'm debating. How can you not like something that is going to help cool intake temps, give a slight octane boost, help clean the motor, and keep the darn thing running optimally.
What I hope you understood is that I did not state that anyone could slap a kit on a car, not tune for it, and gain 60whp. Did you think that? I think in some applications (boosted, anyone?) you can (not WILL, but CAN) actually gain a few...and that was really the point I was trying to make after you jumped into the thread. Gain a few, not 60. You said it was useless without a tune, and that's what I'm debating.
And like I'll tell anyone: my setup is entirely for track usage, more specifically road course duty where I want optimum consistency throughout a 20-30 minute session on a hot day, 4+ times a day. It's not "kill mode". It's a safety blanket, and I'm hoping you understood that, too.
****, to be honest, I didn't even really care too much about gaining any hp to begin with. I'm not a betting man...in this case, I know you're right about leaving power on the table, but that's not why i built mine.
...and as equally useless unless you're tuned for it.
Sort of apples to oranges, but my 97 F150 4.6 2v pings and rattles like crazy towing with 87 octane gas. So it always gets 91 or whatever. A couple times it has been filled with 87 and I started towing, and stopped and added a bottle of 104 Octane Boost (iirc), and it sure seemed to help. Run out a half tank, and refill with 91+ and its good to go again. Bullitt seems to adapt to whatever is in the tank much better.