OMG WTF HAPPEND HERE!!!!

[1320stang]

Pics are kinda small, don't know if that's because imageshack only allows a certain size or that's what they started out as. I prefer Supermotors.org, I can post pics, video, etc and it's limitless, I've never had to remove anything, 40meg limit per upload.

Man, I feel that 1/4" is pushing it, I don't like to see more than an 1/8". I've got some dents along the edge of the roofline (oilcanning) on my '63 where it looks like a kid might have crawled up on top of it or someone put something on top of it. I was thinking of using the heat and wet rag technique to shrink it up, I've never used it before, have you and how much heat do you think it'll take? All I have is a propane torch for soldering plumbing pipe. Actually, I have half of a oxy/acetylene rig, I'm missing the acetylene tank and regulator and the torch only has a welding tip on it. I'm thinking of eBaying the torch and purchasing a oxy/propane rig that I understand will also do actylene. The rig I have came with a old Craftsman Colormatic Arc welder I got off eBay for $20, I need new leads for it. My welder is a Miller 130 MIG I got about 8 years ago from a street rod show in town. I'm compressorless currently, I've got my eyes on a Ingersol Rand 80 gal single stage upright at Tractor Supply that puts out 18 SCFM @ 90 PSI for $750 as the good HVLP guns like their volume. My neighbor has a 600# pot media blasting rig that uses a diesel powered, trailer mounted Ingersol Rand compressor (like you see guys using jackhammers with) that has like a 1 1/2" dia. hose. I asked him how much to media blast my car and he told me, heck buy the media and the diesel and I'll show you how to use it and turn you loose on it. He's got the hood and the fresh air system and everything. He plans on building a 16'x24' building for doing paintwork in. I'm waiting until he gets that built so after I blast it, we can pull it into there and hit it with some DP48 (which is white, since I'll go with Corinthian White as the finish)

I guess I found my answer on the oilcanning technique. http://www.mustangmonthly.com/howto/20318/index.html

 

[1320stang]

My new toy. Pretty fun spinning the car around. I must say that the Whirly Jig brand rotisserie is a pretty nice piece. All I've done here is to get it fitted to my '63 for future use. I'm taking off a few pieces that I won't need, but once I'm done with that, the car will be back on the ground and the rotisserie will move into the garage where it'll be mounted up to my '65 coupe.

View attachment 461513

 

[1320stang]

A little blurry, but the rust holes in the passenger rear floor pan are easily seen.

View attachment 461505

I stretched the front of the wheel openings forward about 10 years ago, and it doesn't look bad, but found my technique of backing it up with another layer of metal was incorrect. I plan on correcting that but not until I can see how large of a slick I can fit back there. I'd like to fit a 31x10.5w, but I don't think that'll happen.

View attachment 461509

The black sharpie line shows how much I plan on notching the front of the framerail, which puts it about to the inside of the inside wall of the framerail. No worries, it'll get backed up by a 1 5/8" .083 chromoly tube that will support the rear suspension.

View attachment 461511

 

[Stanger'66]

Hey 1320 Stang,
1/4" is a little heavy, but that is a good general rule of thumb. 1/8" is probably the thickest my car will see but there aren't supposed to be any major problems if applying up to 1/4". This also depends on where the putty is being applied. To answer your shrinking question, the oxygen acetylene will work fine. You heat up a dime size spot until it is bright red. Follow that up with a cool rag and you should see your metal warp or oil can go away. Another method is using a stainless shrinking disk on a buffer/grinder. This provides enough heat to essentially do the same thing, but without a flame. Here is a link to a shrinking disk which I am considering purchasing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Shrinking-Disc-Salvage-that-ratrod-project-or-Mustang_W0QQitemZ4653759310QQihZ002QQcategoryZ35000QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
A good set of hammers, dollys, and a shrinking tool should get you close to skipping plastic filler altogether. I have never shrunk anything before so I am not guaranteeing any of these procedures. I have seen it done(in person, not on TV), but never done it myself. I will probably purchase that tool this week to cut down on putty, and my oil canning problems. In response to the small picture size, those are thumbnail links to the larger, more detailed pictures.
It looks like you have a fun and interesting project there. I sure wish I had the convenience of a rotisserie for my Mustang. We used one on the Fairlane/Thunderbolt project and it was GREAT!!!
Also, you mentioned using what sounds to be a very nice mig welding unit. I have been using a Hobart 120(Miller owns Hobart) for the last couple of years and was very pleased with it. The only thing I disliked was not the welder, but the consumables that the owner purchased. He had me using thirty thousands wire with straight CO2. The Co2 provides a hotter weld, and the wire was too thick for sheetmetal. Now I am running a borrowed Sears 80 amp with the correct 23 thousands wire and argon/Co2 mix. Much better. I need to save up and purchase my own but borrowing is just too easy! Have fun with your project and if you have any other questions with it just ask.

Edit: I just noticed that you mentioned a propane torch for heating. I also considered that at one time but someone told me thereafter that this was not a good idea. I am not sure why, but I avoided it just to be cautious.

 

[1320stang]

Yeah, I've seen the disk before, the first ones that came out used a wavy edge, that's been about 15 years ago, seen it in Eastwoods catalog back then I believe. I've heard of guys using SS cookware lids or even old cheap sawblades that don't have carbide teeth. My problem is, I don't have a 7" or 9" grinder, only a 4" Dewalt.

Yeah, I have the 75/25 CO2/Argon mix and use the .023" on sheetmetal. I'm thinking of getting a stud gun at Harbor Freight or our other local cheap tool store.

Instead of buying a new floor pan, I'm thinking of using a old can of bondo I have and a sack of sand mix and clean up the floor and pour the sand mix with a bottle of bonding agent and make me a hammerform. I've been looking at a reason to try this out. I was going to make aluminum bumpers for my car, even emailed Ron Covell and asked him how to do it (he said to hammerform over the originals, do it in 3 pieces and weld the endcaps onto the center) and that seemed way too much work (I can see why I was quoted $2200 per bumper) so I have decided to use MirraChrome on some fiberglass bumpers instead.

The link I posted shows using a propane torch with a wet rag. I'll probably dent an old GMC (early 90's vintage) truck hood I have and practice on it. I've got hammers and dollys, planning on getting a slapper bar or making one and a porta-power.

 

[180 Out]

Now that we've established that Stanger '66 is the Mozart of custom bodywork (and tripled his post count in the process), I'm curious of the basis for his comments about the '67 track car. To recap, here's one of the pix:

Here are some of the comments:

"That car is hideous." "He butchered the car to the point where it is unsalvageable." "It is obvious that there was no time spent on that body." "Those german touring car flares look nothing like that crap he put on his car. They look like they took about a half an hour a piece, because they probably did."

That last one is particularly confusing, because to my eye the flares on the '67 look exactly like the ones on the German touring cars. I'll make allowances for youth and all, and there's no accounting for taste either, but these are objectively false statements.

 

[Stanger'66]

If you are looking into a buffer/grinder/polisher, look at the Makita 9227C. It is $180 new on Ebay for the combo pack but from what I hear it is well worth it. This buffer has variable speed from 0-3k rpm. I am using an old B&D right now that runs a constant 5k rpm, not ideal. I have a 4 1/2" angle grinder(cheapo from China) that I got for free and it does a decent job at removing weld, but thats all I use it for. In response to your floor dilemma, do they not reproduce those patches? I used preformed patches when I fixed the toeboards in the Fairlane. That doesn't mean that they reproduce the section you need(just behind the seat, correct?) but if they did I would definitely go that route. I can't see the bondo/sand mixture holding up the constant beating but I guess it depends on what guage metal you are using too, maybe I would be surprised. The bumper idea sounds difficult but it also sound like a fun challenge, especially if you plan on creating a high quality show piece. Hand-formed aluminum bumpers would be quite a conversation piece. Speaking of a porta-power, how did you get your Fairlane up on the rotisserie? I used a porta-power with different extensions to reach the desired height as my jack(even with wood helpers) couldn't reach that high. Am I missing something or is that about the only way to get the car up?

 

[Stanger'66]

Now that we've established that Stanger '66 is the Mozart of custom bodywork (and tripled his post count in the process),

That was never said. What WAS said was that I am not in-experienced and understand what goes into building a vehicle from the ground up.

That last one is particularly confusing, because to my eye the flares on the '67 look exactly like the ones on the German touring cars. I'll make allowances for youth and all, and there's no accounting for taste either, but these are objectively false statements.

I still agree with my previous statement about the flares. The German touring car flares were more rounded(slightly albeit) and had a much more gracious flow between the rocker panel and front valence.

EDIT: You have no idea how NOT worried I am about a post count and that is not why I replied to this thread. I pay no attention to my post count or others'.

 

[bnickel]

stanger66 is right they are a little more rounded and aero-ized, but not by much at all. i still prestons flares look like GTC flares too me.

 

[bnickel]

here is another one. not a lot of difference with thhis one though, they are pretty square

 

[180 Out]

I still agree with my previous statement about the flares. The German touring car flares were more rounded(slightly albeit) and had a much more gracious flow between the rocker panel and front valence.

Speaking of talking to a wall . . . well anyway, here's a pic of one of the Deutscher cars:

and here's the pic of Preston's:

Here's what you wrote:

"Those german touring car flares look nothing like that crap he put on his car."

So tell me, please, exactly how Preston's "crap" looks nothing like the Audi. Because to me the look exactly the same.

 

[Stanger'66]

Maybe the first statement was a little harsh, I'll admit that much.

The German touring car flares were more rounded(slightly albeit) and had a much more gracious flow between the rocker panel and front valence.

Your not talking to a wall here, I am trying to be flexible and understanding of everyone's likings now, instead of my one-sided view as before. I said that I still don't car for the flares, they are SIMILAR to the German touring cars, but not identical. I then stated the semi-subtle but present differences. What is the problem with this?

 

[1320stang]

Well, I'm sure Preston's aren't carbon fiber like the German touring cars are. And yes there are subtile differences, but you're also talking about probably a half million dollar touring car vs. Preston's carport built car, I don't expect him to have the same radius on the corner and he didn't flare them into the body or have the slight slope that the tops do, but for gosh sakes, he did it in a CARPORT!!! His flares have no waves and show a consistant reflection and a gar-un-tee they took more than "30 minutes" to do.

I've seen the bulged out fenders that a lot of these cars have and I think it looks just as terrible. The thing I like about these more is that you can still see the body lines.

Again, Preston has stated that he probably should have cut the car in half down the middle and added 8" to it, but he felt this would be a simpler solution. I don't know about you, but in my 39 years, I've done lots of things that I've thought out (I assumed) very well and once I was done exactly as I envisioned, I didn't like the way it turned out.

That said, I don't think there is that big of a difference to be as picky as you're being. The Audi is a bubble car whereas the Mustang is far more 'cut' (which I think we can ALL agree on).

I don't plan on getting a 7" or 9" grinder any time soon. I don't do enough shrinking to justify the cost of it. My 4" DeWalt gets me by fine and it's a lot less heavy. You can make a variable speed box with an old sewing machine pedal or a rheostat from something else. (you just learned something new.)

They do make floorboards, but they're close to $100 as I recall and they don't fit very well. The bondo is just to make the floor straight, I'll be doing all the hammerforming on the concrete (sand mix is sack concrete without the rocks in it, you just learned something else new ). I figure with 16 or 18 ga. is should work for one floor panel. The concrete will be about 4"+ thick and if I lay it down in sand, the sand will absorbe some of the shock. I'll lay some rebar and wire mesh inside the concrete as well as I already have it laying around.

The bumper sounds WAY to difficult for a beginner panel beater, you have to use dead soft aluminum and there would be too much chance of thinning the piece out as you work it. Plus, it would require TIG welding and I'm not set up for that, nor am I proficient at it. Plus, once it was done, it'd have to be perfect so that when it was polished, it didn't have any waves in it. I've seen original T-bolt bumpers in person and even those restored aren't that great. Mirrachrome will do fine for a lot less money, $450 for the quart kit will probably do my bumpers and 4 other friends, so if we split the costs, it's insanely cheap. ChromeFX would be better, and if I can send the bumpers to Alsa Corp. and have them do them for me.

My rotisserie is supposed to utilize 70's cars stamped bumper jacks, but I used a 8 ton jack like you use on a cherry picker. It came with the rotisserie and doesn't have the casting on the bottom to bolt to a cherry picker, it's just flat. My rotisserie has balancing tools that help to balance the load, I can spin it with one finger.

 

[Max Power]

While being fairly accomplished for being 17, you are still 17. A great number of people on this board started at the same age you did many years ago. I applaud your efforts, but perspective takes time.

Please take the time...

 

[zookeeper]

Without getting too far into the personal taste aspect of the car, I'd like to point out something I found odd. Notice the overall look of the car, low stance, big tires, full cage, etc. Yet with all the full-tilt-no-compromises race stuff (looks like he delted the wipers as well), he kept the stock radio antenna. Wonder how the reception is on the '68 Ford AM-only radio?

 

[Stanger'66]

Sounds like you have a good plan 1320. I would probably do the same thing you are doing, but eventually I wouldl like to try a project like that. Sometimes it is just more fun to do things the hard way. Example: All tool stores carry gravity feed paint gun holders for about $10. I decided to make one from sheetmetal and now have probably 25+ hours into it. Thats ok though because I enjoyed the whole process. I know that I have now spent more money on paint, welding supplies, and scratch putty. This makes for a fairly expensive and time consuming gun holder, but hey, it is cool!. Now I just have to finish the bodywork... I wish I had a TIG, that would be alot of fun. Mig is fun, but it is starting to get a little boring, you know what I mean? I always did like gas welding so maybe I would enjoy Tig welding as well. Too bad the good machines are $1,000+... Back to Preston's car, I guess it all is just a matter of opinion. Most everyone here likes it as-is, so I don't want to ruffle any more feathers. I guess my perspective may be a tad off as MaxPower said because I would have never built a road racer in the first place. If I don't agree with the type of car he built, how can I agree with his styling modifications which are made from a performance standpoint? I can't. So I suppose arguing with those modifications would be like arguing about the whole premise on which the car was built. Well, I gotta go. It looks like the 66 needs a few more hours of paint stripping and metal working in the 95 degree heat. Ahh, the joy of cars...

 

[1320stang]

Well, ugly or not, I think it'd be a hell of a lot of fun to drive it around Laguna Seca or Sears Point.

Preston has wipers on the car, he just has the arms removed in that pic. I imagine that when he races, he removes the antenna, unless that's how they get information to the drivers as to when they're supposed to go out onto the track as it's probably hard to hear a PA system in the car. I know of some drag strips that broadcast low power onto an AM or FM station and the racers would listen for reaction times as they were going down the track, so announcers have to be careful what they say anymore.

 

[180 Out]

Well, ugly or not, I think it'd be a hell of a lot of fun to drive it around Laguna Seca or Sears Point.

You know, that's exactly what I was thinking when I saw that car. I live in the SF Bay Area and I was instantly imagining sitting in the grandstands at Sears Point and watching that car go down the back straight, maybe trailing a couple Le Mans Audis or better yet some bazillionaire's Ferrari trailer jewelry, and emerging from the hairpin and onto the dragstrip out in front of everyone! When you sit in those seats you can see the really fast cars, like American Le Mans or the late model Trans Am or even vintage Can Am cars like McLaren M8E's, they go down that back straight like huge magnets are pulling them toward the hairpin. It's like when you watch a Top Fuel or Funny launch, they're so quick you can't believe your eyes that what you're looking at is real. Lesser cars you can comprehend, but at the highest level what you see can't possibly be happening.

That's why when I look at that cut up '67 I see something very beautiful, and the fact that it was hand built by some yahoo just like me -- well, way more skilled than me, but probably no wealthier -- I just love it all to hell. I hazard to guess that many if not all of the naysayers have not seen any truly high, high performance open track cars in competition, because if they had they would have to love this '67. Put it this way: anyone who can look at this car and say that they would like it better if it was a nut and bolt resto T code coupe with wire wheel covers and a vinyl roof, is not a true car guy.

 

[Stanger'66]

I don't think you can say who is a "true" car guy and who is not. I believe that anyone who enjoys working on their car, whether it be changing their spark plugs and oil, or doing a frame-off restoration, is a "true" car guy. This means anyone to "truly" appreciates a vehicle of any type is a "true" car guy. I will admit that I have not seen any high performance race competition. I watch it on TV(I know I know, that doesn't count) and to be honest, don't care to build that type of car. I enjoy watching the 24 hours of Lemans but it is not my dream to build a home-built road race car. It is all a matter of opinion when it gets down to it. I enjoy riding in and driving the classics because I am too young to have ever been able to when they were new. There is a certain "mystery" when I am riding or driving a restored Mustang. I feel like I can almost go back in time because I am driving the exact same car with the exact same components as someone was 40 years ago. Maybe this is goofy, but I do enjoy it. I feel like changing the cars character takes the charm out of the car. This takes us back to opinon which means no one is right or wrong(except me earlier for ridiculing someone else's car). Really, my favorite cars are the ones with a "Day 2" resoration. You know, the guy buys his Mustang one day and modifies it the next. This is just minor modifications like carburetor, exhaust, intake, or American Racing wheels. Very nostalgic, and a bit more tough than a "Day 1" restoration. Any car with a history as rich as the Mustang's is OK in my book.

 

[MustangMatt1966]

stanger66: "I don't think you can say who is a "true" car guy and who is not. I believe that anyone who enjoys working on their car, whether it be changing their spark plugs and oil, or doing a frame-off restoration, is a "true" car guy. This means anyone to "truly" appreciates a vehicle of any type is a "true" car guy."

well freaking said!!!!!!