Open track Suspension for a 66 fastback??

O

OBERLANDER

New Member
Jul 28, 2002
10
0
0
Pasadena Ca
#1
I have been working on a 66 Mustang Fastback with a friend. We are stuck on what type of suspension to use. The Mustang is a GT 350R clone. I am fairly familiar with late model Mustang suspensions, but I could use a little help with this early model. The car will be used as a Sunday driver as well as to go to Auto-X and to Open Track events. I looked into Griggs Racing and it looks like they have some nice stuff but it’s a little expensive. The total setup is about $9600. I also looked at Global West and they also have some nice stuff. The total setup is around $2600. The Griggs kit has a lot more parts and changes the suspension design, hence the higher price.
I am looking for any advice on a good suspension for this car. Has anyone tried any of the suspensions on their early model mustang?? What did you think? (Likes / Dislikes) Do you have any other suspension suggestions?
Thanks for the help. I know this is kind of long.
 
#5
If money is no object, go here. These people build the best handling and the fastest early models on the planet:

http://www.cobraautomotive.com/

They have passed me at the track plenty of times.

Other's on the forum have the parts you mentioned, just not sure if they have used the set ups at the tracks.

Others...................

Good Luck,

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com
 
#6
OBERLANDER said:
Thanks for the help
There has got to be someone who has tried the listed suspensions. Does anyone know anything about Total control?
Click to expand...

Total Control is finished. Do not buy anything from them, as they are rumored to have gone out of business, and they took a lot of peoples money with them.

I have designed, and built tubular upper and lower control arms. My problem right now is that my car is not done and on the road, so I can't give you any specifics on how it performs.

Historic is pointing you in the right direction there.

87
 
#7
Total Control

Hi
I have heard that the Coil-Over suspension available from Total Control is quite good. However I hear that they may be having some delivery problems as of late..... but these are just rumours, and I don't want to bash a supplier based on them. I hear their products are quite good, and the handling improvement is substantial.
I beleive there is also a Rack & Pinion conversion available from them, that is a straight bolt in, but I understand it will not work with Headers. Flaming River also now has a Rack-n-Pinion Steering bolt on mod for you car, but I beleive it has the same issues with Headers.
I Road Track my 70 Mach1, and I have stayed with improvements to the factory suspension like:
- 1-1/8" front sway bar
- 1 peice export brace
- monte carlo bar
- Poly-graphite bushings
- gas shocks

I am lowering it 2" this year after I install the new FPA headers that will tuck up better than the existing ones.
You probably need more radical stuff than this, if you are running Vintage Racing Series, but I just Open Track mine, in a non "wheel to wheel" type of Events, and want to keep the cars appearance fairly close to stock under the hood, etc.
Regards
Mach1steve
www.muggziperformance.com
 
#8
Mach1steve said:
Hi
I have heard that the Coil-Over suspension available from Total Control is quite good. However I hear that they may be having some delivery problems as of late..... but these are just rumours, and I don't want to bash a supplier based on them. I hear their products are quite good, and the handling improvement is substantial.
I beleive there is also a Rack & Pinion conversion available from them, that is a straight bolt in, but I understand it will not work with Headers. Flaming River also now has a Rack-n-Pinion Steering bolt on mod for you car, but I beleive it has the same issues with Headers.
I Road Track my 70 Mach1, and I have stayed with improvements to the factory suspension like:
- 1-1/8" front sway bar
- 1 peice export brace
- monte carlo bar
- Poly-graphite bushings
- gas shocks

I am lowering it 2" this year after I install the new FPA headers that will tuck up better than the existing ones.
You probably need more radical stuff than this, if you are running Vintage Racing Series, but I just Open Track mine, in a non "wheel to wheel" type of Events, and want to keep the cars appearance fairly close to stock under the hood, etc.
Regards
Mach1steve
www.muggziperformance.com
Click to expand...


No dis-respect here Steve, but I had to file charge back papers with my bank to get my money back from TCP. Delivery isn't a little slow, it's non-exsistent.

Stay away from Total Control Products!!

87
 
#11
Be aware of the modifications you can make within each class of car in for Autocross events. The Griggs setup will defenitely put you in a Prepared class running with modified late model Corvettes and such. If you are doing it for fun, then no worries. If you are doing it to be competetitive, stay with mods that will keep you in a Street Prepared class.
 
#12
This is my opinion. It's all just for fun.

To me the most important part of the car is the brakes. You can make up more time for less money on the brakes than on the throttle in a open track envrionment. My thought is to build a car that will match the drivers goal for the car. If your doing it for fun, build one for fun. If you want to win, build one to win. We want to have fun. We use Porterfield R4 pads only. Two things happen on the track to the brakes (short of a mechanical break like a rotor or other part), either you run out of pedal (fluid boil) or the pads fall apart. Racing brake fluid and racing brake pads have to be used. I have never ran out of brakes. I make up most of my time under braking. The better I become as a driver, the faster lap times I get. The drivers skill and desired speed is what will let you know what suspention to get. A bone stock 2V 4-speed Mustang with a 1" drop on the upper arms, big sway bars, Koni shocks, rubber bushing replacement with either bearings or poly type stuff will be fun to drive at the track, if you have never ending brakes. With a car like that, it will take a novice driver a long time to reach the full potential of the car. A learning curve (pun) is needed. It is much different than driving on the street, though it makes you a better street driver. Some type of driving school is a great way to start. I have taken both the Jim Russell and Skip Barber schools. Makes a nice Christmas present. The strut rods are a issue. I have not had one break yet but some folks have. There are some nice adj. strut rods on the market or you can make your own. They make a nice change to the way the car drives and are a good investment for any performance Mustang. A roller spring perch is the best thing I have ever done to our cars. It changes the way the car feels and gives a smoother ride. Our car runs in race trim all the time, exept for tires. There is no such thing as a street/track tire.The new Hoosier Racing tire is the tire of choice. The folks I see at the track having the most fun are the ones that don't work on the car all weekend and could care less how fast they were going. So we have a car that can be driven to work durring the week and to the track on the weekend, change the tires, and run. The proper safety equipment for the group your in and the club you run with is a given. Again this is just my opinion. Though I have thick skin and will admit when I'm wrong.


John

(edit to fix links)
 
#13
OBERLANDER said:
I looked into Griggs Racing and it looks like they have some nice stuff but it’s a little expensive. The total setup is about $9600. I also looked at Global West and they also have some nice stuff. The total setup is around $2600. The Griggs kit has a lot more parts and changes the suspension design, hence the higher price.
I am looking for any advice on a good suspension for this car. Has anyone tried any of the suspensions on their early model mustang?? .
Click to expand...

I too was in your same situation. I looked at Griggs but it was over kill for my needs and was over my budget anyway. I looked at TCP but again, over my budget. Enter Global West. I opted for the Stage 5 kit. I got tubular upper and lower control arms (negative wedge), new springs, rear leafs with their "cat5" components, new Koni shocks, 12.75 inch power disk brakes front and back, new master cylinder, subframes, jacking rails, new spindles, Vintage 45 wheels, and a few other parts, for the total price of $6500. You cannot beat that with a stick. I do not know what this set up will do to your eligibility to race but I really think it is the way to go.

Unless you are a serious racer, you probably will never use the Griggs stuff to its full capabilities. As for TCP, the experience of others should be your guide.
 
#16
I'll add my two cents to this thread:

As I got closer to getting my car on the track (first event was in October, 2001), some of the higher end suspensions were becoming available and I wished that I had the money to step up to the latest tech.

However, after just a couple events, I realized that both Historic and Opentracker are right: you don't have to go to the latest and greatest to have fun or be fast. The first part (fun) is easy: taking these cars out on the track when they are well prepared is just about the most fun I have ever had.

The second part (going fast) is a little more complicated than I had originally thought.

Having the latest suspension tech or the biggest motor doesn't make you fast: seat time is what makes you fast (at least faster than you were before). For me, the fun is the second most important thing about my on-track experience (number one is safety). Going faster than I did the last time out is the third most important thing (I don't really care if I'm faster than anyone else - for me, this isn't competition, it's a recreational activity).

My thoughts (and these are just my opinions):

1) Think about safety first (bad stuff can happen, but you can really minimize risk by thinking about safety before anything else).

2) Brakes are oh-so-important, as Opentracker has said (I'm still trying to get mine working properly and it has been the single biggest frustration in my driving experience). Two days until my next event and I'm hoping I finally have them where I want them.

3) Suspension should be up to the task, but, if you can't afford tubular a arms or coil-overs, you can still have fun and be fast by going through your suspension and upgrading where you can (shocks are one area where I think it's important to go a little farther if you can).

4) Seat time is a better investment in your performance than anything else (especially for the first few years - yeah, it take lots of experience before you even get close to "pushing the limits" of your car - if you think your fast, just ask an experienced driver to take you for a ride in your car).

5) Two words: Race rubber. Before I went to the higher end suspensions, I'd consider getting an extra set of wheels and slipping on some race rubber (I wouldn't recommend this for a completely stock suspension, or for a driver who is in the first stages of learning). This will probably beat ANY suspension setup change you could make. I couldn't believe the difference when I switched from some BFG Comp T/A ZR4s to Kumho VictoRacers (a step or two below true race tires, but they are street legal).

6) The more complex your suspension setup (or engine, for that matter), the more time you will spend working on it and trying to get it right. My car has missed two open track sessions (1/2 day) over the last two + years. I have buddies with very complicated setups (e.g., the full TCP setup, EFI Supercharged motors and six speed transmissions) who spend more time on the trailer than the track.

7) If you have money to spend, by all means, go for what you like. I, for one, would have loved to have the full-on Griggs setup, but I also know that the smile that's plastered on my face when I'm on the track is as big as it would be if I had been able to go that route.

8) More power should come just about last. I'm running the 289 that came in my car and it's just mildly warmed over, yet I've passed Ferraris and Porsches because of the seat time that I've had - not a knock on them: I've also been passed by a Neon and Taurus for the very same reason. It's too easy to get in WAY over your head when you are learning if you have a 500 hp monster under the hood.

So, there you have it: quantity, not quality (geez, I didn't realize I was writing a novel!). Free advice, worth every penny!

One last bit of information (I won't call it wisdom) to share: try to get some on-track experience before you set up an Open Track beast, even if it's just riding along with someone else. We all think that this is exactly what we've wanted to do, but it is different than anything you've ever done on the street. I also have friends who came off the track after a couple laps and realized that this isn't what they thought: going into a turn at 75 or 80 in the car you have worked so hard on can be intimidating - especially if the guy that's glued himself to your rear bumper wants to go 90!!

I know I didn't answer specific questions about suspension setups, but I hope some of this is helpful to you (or someone else considering getting into this great sport).

Good luck!
 
#17
LanceMach and Opentracker, you have done a great job! Perhaps one day the three of us can get together on the track at the same time. That would be a blast.

And of course, as you two realize the "social" aspect of road racing is so much fun. One day I will tell everyone about our ritual that involves the 5 gallon paint bucket in the evenings after the racing is done.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com
 
#18
our ritual that involves the 5 gallon paint bucket in the evenings after the racing is done
Click to expand...

I wonder if that is what the Shelby Club calls "O Beer Thirty?" :D

You are so right about the social aspects - that's one of the best parts (you spend maybe an hour and a half on the track, but the rest of the day/night with your friends).

I'm going to get to meet John (OpenTracker) this weekend and am very much looking forward to it! The Shelby Club is hosting the "Spring Sprint" at Thunderhill and I'm just about foaming at the mouth to get out there!

I know you want to do Laguna Seca some day: I live about 2 hours from it and I still haven't been able to catch it (the Shelby Club usually runs there in the middle of winter and I've always been working on the car - next year). Perhaps you can provide the extra incentive to get me out there: I'd love to see your car in person.

We're extremely fortunate here in the Bay Area: not only do we have Laguna Seca, but Sears Point (it was a good enough name in '69, it's good enough today!) and Thunderhill are both excellent tracks as well and both are within 2 hours of my home!

Are you running AI (or was is AIX) this year?
 
#19
Dang Henry, that turn don't look THAT tight, but your inside wheels are barely touching the ground!
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