opinion on engine mods

[Kagan]

hehehe

the problem is I will order these from US since I live in Turkey. So I have to make a point-shot.. Thats why I am asking and trying to learn all the view points and experiences. Before these two parts, I have bought lots of things for my car by reading the forums. but for the engine mods the combos really depend on the current situation of the car and really depends on the aim and the future plans (If I am not wrong)

Anyway; hope other people writes comments and I can make a good choice...

 

[Rusty67]

I would be so bold as to throw in my opion. I would go with the edlebrock as it was designed for the edlebrock manifold. One l;ess thing to try and match and if a new cam is in your future, just by one from edlebrock as it was matched to the carb intake you already have.

Edlebrock carbs aren't MADE for their intakes or cams. They are just webber carbs with an Edlebrock stamp on them. Carbs are a fairly standard size and spacing, you should be able to bolt just about any 4v carb onto any 4v manifold without much issue. The only thing that could be problematic is the linkage and even that isn't all too difficult to deal with.

 

[65FBE2]

I just believe it will be alot harder to make a mistake if you purchase everything from a company that has engineerd it all to work together

 

[65FBE2]

Edlebrock carbs aren't MADE for their intakes or cams. They are just webber carbs with an Edlebrock stamp on them. Carbs are a fairly standard size and spacing, you should be able to bolt just about any 4v carb onto any 4v manifold without much issue. The only thing that could be problematic is the linkage and even that isn't all too difficult to deal with.

They are Carter based (we new what you ment)but have been re-engineerd some what. Just as Demon Carbs are Holley based. They are quite different though! The cam has been engineered by edelbrock to work with their intake and carb combination there by making the induction sysem work well together.

 

[Rusty67]

They are Carter based (we new what you ment)but have been re-engineerd some what. Just as Demon Carbs are Holley based. They are quite different though! The cam has been engineered by edelbrock to work with their intake and carb combination there by making the induction sysem work well together.

That statement I can definately live with. They do grind their cams for certain combinations as a selling point.

Carter/Webber... same thing basically. I know its originally a Carter design. The Edlebrock carb I got rid of actually said Webber on it and had the Edlebrock name place rivited into the front of it. Maybe they aren't doing that anymore with the newer ones.

 

[68RCodeConv]

For internally stock (heads/cam) 289s I recommend a carb around 500 cfm. It is plenty of carb up to 5500 and the stock heads/cam give up long before that - even with headers and a free flowing exhaust.

The only carbs in this size are the Edelbrock and the Autolite 4100. I left out the 4300 because it is a difficult carb to rebuild and tune.

My experience with Edelbrocks is that they are pretty close right out of the box. I've had to do some minor tuning to them but nothing radical.

 

[jspagna1]

Intake? Ford A321, Edelbrock Performer RPM ( std or airgap) Or Weiand Stealth. Carb? Holley 570 Street Avenger. You said it had a Motorcraft intake now, Motorcraft didn't make intakes. I've never heard of Ford using the brand for that purpose.

I agree with D.Hearne, I would go with the Edelbrock Performer RPM ( std or airgap). Carb? Holley 570 Street Avenger. I would not go more than 600 cfm. This will suffice if you make future mods down the road.
Edelbrock carbs IMO suck. All the car guys around my area agree. I think the Holley is the way to go.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2576315

 

[rbohm]

Carter/Webber... same thing basically. I know its originally a Carter design.

actually no, you are right that the basic design of the carb is a carter carb since edelbrock bought carter carburetors. they started redesigning the carb for better operation, and edelbrock was working with weber at the time. apparently there were issues with the two companies working together, so vic bought weber also to eliminate those issues. thus the edelbrock carb is a weber redesigned carter afb, or avs depending on the series carb you choose. edelbrock also bought rochester as well, and now offers redesigned quadrajets.

 

[ratio411]

hmmm. so for the tuning up easiness and the having the least faults; what would you recommend?

Also for the intake; HP & torque benefits, gas mileage and availability for future modifications; which one would you prefer? I am also thinking that you are all recommending the intake "a perfect fit" with the carb you recommend..

I am going to take alot of heat for this...

A good carb for economy and performance, probably the best ever made for dual use, is the Quadrajet... Quadraflood, Quadrabog, Quadrajunk, or whatever you like to call it.

I ran a Quadrabog on a 302 before. F4B intake with adapter...
When they are tuned well, they get great economy and can really get on up and run when you floor it.
Holley is much better performance wise, but is horrible for economy.
Edelcrap is good for niether.
If I was ever in the need for a carb other than Holley, Quadrajunk would be my personal pic.
However, I am pretty diehard Holley, so I don't see ever using anything else nowadays.

Done.
Let the flames begin!

 

[ratio411]

actually no, you are right that the basic design of the carb is a carter carb since edelbrock bought carter carburetors. they started redesigning the carb for better operation, and edelbrock was working with weber at the time. apparently there were issues with the two companies working together, so vic bought weber also to eliminate those issues. thus the edelbrock carb is a weber redesigned carter afb, or avs depending on the series carb you choose. edelbrock also bought rochester as well, and now offers redesigned quadrajets.

I could be misinformed, but my understanding was E'brock just bought rights to put their name on the carbs.

TRW owns Federal Mogul, or vise-versa, and much of E'brock's stuff is made by TRW. E'brock just slaps their label on it.
All the E'brock cams and valvetrain parts are TRW stuff with a fancy label on it.
Anyway, the Federal Mogul connection comes in because Federal Mogul owns Carter and the AFB carb designs.
Now, with TRW owning Federal Mogul, and TRW producing stuff for Edelbrock, and Federal Mogul owning Carter... It makes sense that TRW is making the carbs, fuel pumps, cams, valvetrain parts, and such. Doesn't it?

If anything, TRW bought out E'brock, not the other way around.
When Vic actually owned E'brock, they were in terrible financial trouble.
I think he is more than likely just a marketing figurehead now.

One thing is for sure, E'brock doesn't own TRW, and E'brock doesn't make most of it's parts.

Summit even gets it's house brand cams from TRW...
That is why they have the exact same specs as E'brock cams!
Just without the fancy price to pay for the fancy label.

 

[D.Hearne]

They are Carter based (we new what you ment)but have been re-engineerd some what. Just as Demon Carbs are Holley based. They are quite different though! The cam has been engineered by edelbrock to work with their intake and carb combination there by making the induction sysem work well together.

I don't want to put you on the spot, but Edelbrocks cams & carbs are no more engineered for the intakes than Holley's are to their intakes. As has been said before, Edelbrock gets it's cams ground by an outside vendor, same as everyone else. All they've done is pick a batch of parts they think work well together. But when it comes to dual plane carb intakes, these are not as sensitive to different carbs and cams as single planes are. They're marketed as being usable in a set rpm range, but that's really misleading. A high rise dual plane intake will work as well off idle as a lower profile dual plane. The difference is the high rise gives you more to play with in the upper rpm ranges. Edelbrock's old F4B was the same intake that Ford & Shelby used on the 289's(which is now currently sold by Ford as their A321), it's no more a proprietary design as their current RPM intake is. Look at an RPM intake and a Weiand Stealth (made by Holley) these two are damn near carbon copies of each other. Any 500-600 cfm carb will work fine on a small block, no matter the build with a high rise dual plane intake. It's like a "one size fits all" design. They work well on anything you put them on.

 

[rbohm]

ratio411 you are right in that edelbrock carbs for automobiles are made by an outside source. however edebrock does make many of their own products, including shocks, motorcycle carbs and many other products. they have been slowly bringing everything in house. they have even bought russell performance products. as for who owns edelbrock, it is a publicly traded corporation now, has been since the 90's, BUT last i knew, and actually as of 2002 and more likely much later, vic edelbrock jr was president and ceo of edelbrock corporation.

 

[jlangholzj]

There are 4 basic adjustments to make with a vacuum sec Holley.(manual choke) These are the idle mixture screws (two per carb), idle speed screw (one) , the accellerator pump arm to lever clearance and the vacuum secondary spring ( a pack of seven different springs covers this).

AAHHH. but you forgot ONE, the cam for the Accelerator pump, it adjusts when and how much gas your motor gets from the accel pump.

One thing that (from my knowledge) that is good about holley; vac. seccondaries, they only feed your enginge as much as it needs, opposed to mechanical, wich can overdo it a bit.

Wow i'm supprised that this didn't get jacked like the last poor guy who popped this question I guess their ego's got deflaited a bit JK guys, no offense

 

[D.Hearne]

AAHHH. but you forgot ONE, the cam for the Accelerator pump, it adjusts when and how much gas your motor gets from the accel pump.

I didn't forget that adjustment. In twenty years of playing with Holleys, I've never felt the need to change it's positioning. The pump cam positioning is something you might want to change with a single plane intake with a huge plenum volume. Or to really fine tune a strip car to eek out every last bit of performance out of a combo. You are right as to it being an adjustment, it's just one that rarely needs to be done.

 

[ratio411]

Ya know, I understand why Holley made the adjustable pump cam...
However it is a pretty useless adjustment for even a street/strip car.

DH is right...
Use what the carb came with and don't bother.
If you feel you must, I found that the #330 cam in hole #1 and shaft arm hole #1, is the smoothest and most consistent cam.
Fwiw, most street carbs in the past came with a 330 cam set 1 and 1, if that tells you anything. I don't know about carbs made in the last 10-15 years.

My neighbor has a 770 SA Holley with a different cam, but I don't know if it has been changed... If it came that way from Holley, it would be the first stock cam I have seen that wasn't a 330... Unless you are talking 4155/4165 carbs, 50cc pump, or 4500 carbs.

The squirter size is far more important than tuning the pump cam.

Edit: My comments concern single carb setups on NA engines.
Of course there is plenty of room to significantly alter the pump cams when multiple carbs or a serious power adder is involved.

 

[jlangholzj]

well ok then, as some of you know I've been having a bit of problems with my carb, after i put in the kit, its VERY responsive, but at a slow accel from a stop, it likes to bog when it hits 1500 then shudder & jump to 2300. sooo, i'm guessing a rich mixture wich means i need a smaller squirter??

 

[ratio411]

well ok then, as some of you know I've been having a bit of problems with my carb, after i put in the kit, its VERY responsive, but at a slow accel from a stop, it likes to bog when it hits 1500 then shudder & jump to 2300. sooo, i'm guessing a rich mixture wich means i need a smaller squirter??

That could be in your accel pump circuit or wrong power valve.

Not enough info...

 

[jlangholzj]

as far as i know, its got a stock power valve (dont know wich though) and i just put in a new diagphram for the accel pump and the squirter size is "25" jets are 66 . and when the kit got put in, i broke it down completely and cleaned everything. but it seems that no matter where the adjustment for the accel pump is "set" it always does this;

if you need more, help me out a little. tks guys (although i'm not bas for a 17 yr. old who thinks he knows everything )

 

[ratio411]

My first thought is 66 sounds small for jets.
However, it depends alot on carb size, as well as the rest of your engine/car combo.
If changing the accel circuit makes no change, then that likely is not it.
PV depends alot on cam, vehicle wieght, and rear gear ratio.
6.5 is the 'stock' PV and works well on most apps. When the cam gets lumpy, then it is wise to tune it in properly. If the cam is pretty mild, 6.5 is usually fine.

 

[ratio411]

well ok then, as some of you know I've been having a bit of problems with my carb, after i put in the kit, its VERY responsive, but at a slow accel from a stop, it likes to bog when it hits 1500 then shudder & jump to 2300. sooo, i'm guessing a rich mixture wich means i need a smaller squirter??

I missed the "slow acceleration" comment.
That steers me away from the accel pump circuit.
The accel pump plays it's part when you punch it.
The slower you push the pedal, the less the accel pump has to do with anything.

Does that make sense?