Opinions on street car motors

[rbonella]

Going to freshin up my 357 windsor this winter and I am curious on what you guys think is the ultimate street car motor combo. My car is not a dd, but drivin on nice days/weekends. Maybe a couple trips to the strip a year. Don't get me wrong, I'm always looking for more power, but when do you think enough is enough. Is there a point where problems outweigh the power you make? I want to make as much power as possible, but I want
-good street manners
-no over heating issues
-obviously pump gas
-minimal maintenance
-power from 2500-6500 rpm's
-plenty of vacuum for brakes
Would you run a stroked NA? Supercharger w/mild boost? Turbo?

 

[Notchbck93]

KISS is the mentality that brings smiles.


Let's start with your current set up; what do you have for the H/C/I combo currently.

Carb'd or injected?

Stock t-5 or something stronger?

Operating budget?

Contingency fund?

Achievables i.e. what do you want the car to ultimately do within a certain operating budget?

 

[rbonella]

current combo
69' 357
venolia 10.5:1 pistons
victor jr heads un ported 2.02/160 w/1.6rr
b cam (not a fan of)
gt40 upper/lower unported (the bottleneck of my combo)
30lb jectors
77 Pro-am mas
75 tb
Long tubes
h-pipe no cats
flowmasters dumped, exhaust is all 2.5"
Tremec 3550
3:73

 

[Shaolin Crane]

if you want simple power just throw on a 150hp shot of giggle gas

 

[rbonella]

I would be happy with 400-450 hp. If i could achieve that with the 357...great, 408 would be nice too which i'm considering. Never ran a solid cam before, but some say it's no big deal.

 

[25thmustang]

Almost every HCI car or more I have seen has had some type of reliability issues.

Even my brothers GT40P car with a cam has cold idle issues.

 

[92GreenGT]

I feel my combo is a good all around "street car" setup.

Retains all accessories(no smog pump but it does have a smog pump delete pulley so you can run a smog pump if need be)
Makes enough power to be fun but not enough to be unreal fast
Very simple and cheap
stock cam so the idle is very tame and the turbo helps quieten the exhaust down

Anything making 450-500rwhp in a fox is about the limit of price per dollar fun, after that the money really shoots up if you want everything else to be just as strong.

 

[Notchbck93]

b cam is old technology as is your intake.

Grab an Anderson NA cam or a trickflow unit...351 trickflow intake

Air Flow Research

check out the cyl head articles at the bottom to compare your current head flow numbers to what else is out there.

PMS to tune it; I love my PMS system.

530hp and close to 500 ftlbs with the afr 205's

Bob Lathrop's Modest 351 Windsor - Popular Hot Rodding Magazine


Edel victor junior comparo on a 392

http://paceperformance.com/ProductImages/manufacturer/cartech/pdfchapters/SA153CHPT2.pdf

 

[Notchbck93]

Anything making 450-500rwhp in a fox is about the limit of price per dollar fun, after that the money really shoots up if you want everything else to be just as strong.

That's where I am at and it's also why I am leaving the power level alone. Plenty fast for the street, has great manners and still gets respectable mpg.

 

[92GreenGT]

That's where I am at and it's also why I am leaving the power level alone. Plenty fast for the street, has great manners and still gets respectable mpg.

Exactly.

 

[undercnstrction]

That's where I am at and it's also why I am leaving the power level alone. Plenty fast for the street, has great manners and still gets respectable mpg.

just read the list of parts on your '93 but i didn't see what cubic inches you're running. and you really get 23mph??? sweet!

 

[89stang1]

not so sure your bottleneck is the gt 40 upper and lower look at my #s in my sig with same lower and almost exact same flowing upper. u have moderate to high compression i think if u went with a good cutom grind cam and some AFR 185 or even 205s and a good tune and u might be right where u need without breakin the bank and retaining good street manners ................if u have some cash left maybe get the intake ported even with that u didn't spend that much

 

[rbonella]

That's the thing, I know plenty of guys who keep making more and more power, but there always comes a time where the car starts spending more time down in the garage as opposed to having fun with the car. Start breaking parts, finicky tunes, chasing electrical demons, monster cams etc...
That's where Iam at, build a higher compression na windsor. Or a simple h/c/i combo with a little boost? I have never had a centri blower on my cars, so I don't know how they hold up. Same with a turbo, no experience. My friend's dad has a turbo 306, but it seems like the car is never running right, but when it does..it pushes 650hp.

 

[NIKwoaC]

not so sure your bottleneck is the gt 40 upper and lower

I'd say it is. For a 331 a GT-40 intake is borderline too small, so a 357 could definitely use something bigger. I've seen dyno intake comparisons where a GT-40 on a 347 with no other changes was 20hp less than some other aftermarket intakes. Add 10 cubes and you are even worse off.

The GT-40 might work well on your 331, but I'd imagine his 357 needs something bigger.

 

[89stang1]

comes down to would u be happy with 400RWHP to 450RWHP my advice on the street its plenty, my car feels like its getting close to the edge of great driveability yet i do have it. Just feels good to have great HP made NA i know the argument can go on forever with this subject but a 357ci with great flowing heads a good custom cam and a good tune will feel like a monsta with killer torque with that GT40 upper and lower and if u ever need a little more power slap a dry NOS kit on complete for under 800 bucks i doubt u will need it cause thats where im at now i have a dry kit all hooked up never used it yet with new engine i need a tune but thats not what holding me back im pretty satisfied with power right now. Thats why without spending alot of money and possible street issues never hurts to let the motor do everything it can first

 

[89stang1]

I'd say it is. For a 331 a GT-40 intake is borderline too small, so a 357 could definitely use something bigger. I've seen dyno intake comparisons where a GT-40 on a 347 with no other changes was 20hp less than some other aftermarket intakes. Add 10 cubes and you are even worse off.

The GT-40 might work well on your 331, but I'd imagine his 357 needs something bigger.

borderlne for sure with a 357 but i dont mind giving up 20hp for more torque and great street manners with 5500rpm intake instead of bigger flowing ones where u need to get 6000 to 6500 rpms to get the power in the long run 5500rpm engine will outlast the higher rpm one

 

[Notchbck93]

just read the list of parts on your '93 but i didn't see what cubic inches you're running. and you really get 23mph??? sweet!

Stock short block; ungirdled.

23 mpg was an all highway run at 70mph at just under 200 miles on a trip. People kept asking me at shows, what kind of mpg does that thing get; like I keep track of it. So, after some thinking about it, I figured I would visit some family downstate and see what the Ole Green Notch could really acquire. At least now I have a response to the question. I can't say that I have checked it since.

 

[Notchbck93]

That's the thing, I know plenty of guys who keep making more and more power, but there always comes a time where the car starts spending more time down in the garage as opposed to having fun with the car. Start breaking parts, finicky tunes, chasing electrical demons, monster cams etc...
That's where Iam at, build a higher compression na windsor. Or a simple h/c/i combo with a little boost? I have never had a centri blower on my cars, so I don't know how they hold up. Same with a turbo, no experience. My friend's dad has a turbo 306, but it seems like the car is never running right, but when it does..it pushes 650hp.

I believe your bottom end to be just fine.

AFR 205 heads, a much better cam, and the trick flow intake I listed above should put you at 500 reliable hp.

A 408 kit in your block would give you more punch out of the hole. The great thing about Mustangs is that there are already so many tried-and-true reliable combos out there just waiting for you to purchase the parts to assemble it.

According to Rick Anderson, I am at around 500 crank hp, plenty for my stock block and world class t-5. That's at 8 lbs of boost.

I would much rather have a 408 pump gas windsor making the same hp NA.


As my car stands, I would not hesitate to go on a 1000 mile road trip utilizing the AC and the cruise control to keep myself comfortable. I set out to build a reliable, friendly combo, not a rwhp record setter. My car is super-responsive and has great street manners. Don't fall into the trap of dyno bragging.

 

[rbonella]

you nailed it, not a dyno bragging guy. Like driving to car shows, cruises, an occassional trip here and there which means I spend most of my time between 2000 and 5000 rpms.

 

[89stang1]

you nailed it, not a dyno bragging guy. Like driving to car shows, cruises, an occassional trip here and there which means I spend most of my time between 2000 and 5000 rpms.

DAM if that aint ME!!

im on the same page as Notchbck93 without a doubt!