Overheating Very Quickly

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

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2

9

Jun 27, 2015

#41

• Jun 27, 2015

• #41

stang89bidges said:

Any progress?

Click to expand...

Still waiting on the damn machine shop. They are "slammed" is the reason they are giving me for being a week behind. If they are found to be warped It seems I'll need to bring them back and reinstall to get p2v clearance unless somone knows a way to ballpark it. Going to clean off the old headgasket material today just so I have something to do.

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 2, 2015

#42

• Jul 2, 2015

• #42

Finally got the heads back. No warping, no cracks. Found a few scratches on a couple cylinders. Will be draining the oil today to see if theres a bunch of metal in it. If not, the goal is to slap it together and hope it doesnt leak anymore. Started cleaning the HG surface. How do you all block off the coolant passages? Used some shop towels but those arent lint free and fall apart. Gonna try and find some lint free rags from walmart after work. I figure as long as I get the larger chunks of gasket material off first some dust from whats left wont hurt in the coolant since I'll be draining it. Was using the scotchpad without a backing to get around the studs. Would this cause uneven surface? Probably will just pull the studs since I want to chase those threads anyway.

How do you guys keep the surface from getting a glaze of rust? Since I couldnt finish last night I just dapped my finger in some oil and rubbed around the surface.

 

squeak93

15 Year Member

Jun 2, 2005

2,257

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Joplin, Missouri

Jul 2, 2015

#43

• Jul 2, 2015

• #43

Pull the studs and clean it properly. I usually put a shop vac on all the ports once I'm done cleaning. Keep the big chunks out and you should be golden If your really are worried you possibly could pull the water pump, and force water into the jackets (along with compressed air) to clean out any remaining junk. It will make a mess of things but will give you a piece of mind. I normally just shop vac and try to be careful with big chunks. I'm also lazy and use a yellow pin stripe remover disc and an air tool to remove gaskets. Makes a dusty mess but proper cleaning and I've not once had a head gasket or gasket leak after doing. Be careful around water jackets with fluid in them as it makes royal mess (yay).

Similar to this guy 3m yellow paint remover disc - Bing Images

They go quickly and are pricey but beats using a razor blade any day of the week.

 

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

Mar 14, 2014

727

144

74

Fort Worth Texas

Jul 2, 2015

#44

• Jul 2, 2015

• #44

I don't recommend anything power-related when cleaning b-deck and head-deck surfaces. Just too risky IMO. It's up to you of course. Using a scotch brite with no backing isn't harsh enough to make uneven surface unless you spent hours scrubbing on the same spot. And trust me when I say a scotch brite can get the surfaces looking like new again, it just takes a lot of time and elbow grease.

I use a shop vac too, works great.

Remember when chasing threads you should use a thread chaser NOT a tap. And you should chase every bolt hole, all good engine builders do this. It's cheap insurance to reassembling your engine without issues down the road.

 

squeak93

15 Year Member

Jun 2, 2005

2,257

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Joplin, Missouri

Jul 2, 2015

#45

• Jul 2, 2015

• #45

Good point on thread chasing. Also, I've had good luck with the yellow disc but use at your own risk. (also, don't hold it in one spot like anything).

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 2, 2015

#46

• Jul 2, 2015

• #46

Thanks guys. Going over lightly with a razor gets the big chunks and the rest comes off pretty easily with the pad. Ill post a pic of the cylinder scratches. There's one cylinder in particular im worried about because I can catch my nail on it. Since the heads are good and this engine has already been bored Im not gonna worry about it too much. 5.0 longblocks are a dime a dozen anyway. Glad my ported gt40's are still good. Where can obtain a chaser? Is this something I can get at lowes?

 

squeak93

15 Year Member

Jun 2, 2005

2,257

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164

Joplin, Missouri

Jul 2, 2015

#47

• Jul 2, 2015

• #47

Thread chasers/restorers can be rented from O'Reilly's (or a local auto parts store if you don't have any).

 

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

Mar 14, 2014

727

144

74

Fort Worth Texas

Jul 2, 2015

#48

• Jul 2, 2015

• #48

Great news on those heads. All your hard work is paying off! Like I said before, even though you found out the heads are ok and technically you may not of needed to remove them after all, think of the money and time you would have spent tearing it all back down again because you didn't check them and there was a problem. You can now sleep at night, you know what you got under the hood.

Not to mention you found cylinder scratches. Not the end of the world but you now know your going to need a rebuild soon if you plan to apply pressure to the rear wheels anytime soon...

A scratch in the cylinder wall that you catch with a finger nail isn't good. But it's not necessarily a show stopper either. It's going to be a source of blow-by. How far down the cylinder does the scratch extend? Probably the full length of piston travel I'm going to assume. Usually is the piston skirt that has dragged some FM up and down the cylinder that got past the piston rings or came from the oil pan up.

I have the same thing in 2 of my cylinders. I decided to leave it and run them anyways but I plan on future rebuild again soon. I also have a supercharger installed. I've been running it this way for a while now with no issues as of yet but I'm only driving it on weekends and not on a track.

Just know if you decide to reassemble now you will eventually see problems later. Might be thousands of miles down the road(if you don't run her hard) or it could be sooner.

In the old days, a guy would have not looked twice at the scratch and just slapped her together and ran her till the engine blew up. Probably would last a long while too but in the end she'd be eating oil and guzzling gasoline. Really depends on your plans. Daily driver? I'd slap her together and run it. Plan on upgrades and hard runs in the near future, stop and rebuild it now.

 

Reactions: m3x1c0

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 3, 2015

#49

• Jul 3, 2015

• #49

stang89bidges said:

In the old days, a guy would have not looked twice at the scratch and just slapped her together and ran her till the engine blew up. Probably would last a long while too but in the end she'd be eating oil and guzzling gasoline. Really depends on your plans. Daily driver? I'd slap her together and run it. Plan on upgrades and hard runs in the near future, stop and rebuild it now.

Click to expand...

Yea I've learned the little bit I know from guys with that old school mentality. My buddy that races buicks once R&rR'd head-gaskets on his turbo Buick in the pits at a local track. The pits are on the lawn and he definitely got some grass on that head. Ran a 10 second pass and then he drove it home 2 hours. Im obviously taking more time on this.

Currently waiting on some paint to dry as I wanted to take the opportunity to throw some paint on parts of the chassis that were rusty. Lifters are soaking in cheap oil. Got almost all the gasket material off and chased the threads with my homemade chaser that cost me 30 cents. Once the paint dries I'll be going over the blocks surface once more as well as cleaning the piston heads a bit just for giggles (I know they'll just get gross again after a few hundred miles but what the heck.) Hopefully will have the heads on and ready for intake tomorrow. Hoping to drive my girlfriend to church on sunday

Also, I accidentally stripped the little allen socket on one of the ARP bolts last night while I was super tired. No way am I paying for a new set of ARP studs because of one that messed up so I just elected to leave it in and clean the best I can around it. Once this longblock breathes its last I'll get new head studs.

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 3, 2015

#50

• Jul 3, 2015

• #50

Is the ARP assembly lubricant ok for all of the bolts or do I need RTV for the ones that pass into the water jackets?

Gonna go ahead and just the Ultra Black Sealant I have on all the studs so they will torque evenly. Thoughts?

 

Last edited: Jul 3, 2015

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

Mar 14, 2014

727

144

74

Fort Worth Texas

Jul 3, 2015

#51

• Jul 3, 2015

• #51

Yeah you need sealant on the lower row of bolts. Put that arp lube between the washers and head of bolts. And use its everywhere on upper row of bolts including the threads. I use #2 permatex that doesn't harden. I would suggest you use a non hardening sealant. Best is prob the white high temp thread sealer but the #2 permatex from local hardware store will do just fine.

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 4, 2015

#52

• Jul 4, 2015

• #52

Going to be to be ready to assemble the valve train soon. Any advice on that lifter preload? Some instructions are super simple, some are ridiculously theoretical.

How about this method: View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LVJOACVJIQE

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 4, 2015

#53

• Jul 4, 2015

• #53

Well this is demoralizing. Pictures worth a thousand words:


As you can see most of the pushrod cups are severely damaged. If you look closely you'll see one that is actually so bad that you can see through to the cardboard. What the hell could have cause this? Preload too tight? I noticed there are no locks on these. Just one Allen screw to tighten. I plan on getting new ones Monday but don't want the same thing to happen to new ones. What else do I need to check beside preload?

I know this is a dumb question but would it be a bad idea to run the car with these? I just want to fire it to make sure I didn't screw up the install.

 

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

Mar 14, 2014

727

144

74

Fort Worth Texas

Jul 4, 2015

#54

• Jul 4, 2015

• #54

On vaca in a terrible cell phone signal area. I will try and watch the video in the morning and also post a link or two.

 

stang89bidges

Advanced Member

Mar 14, 2014

727

144

74

Fort Worth Texas

Jul 4, 2015

#55

• Jul 4, 2015

• #55

And not worth even trying those lifters. Might chip a piece off and it end up in a real bad place...

 

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician

Aug 27, 2012

11,606

8,859

214

In the garage

Jul 5, 2015

#56

• Jul 5, 2015

• #56

m3x1c0 said:

Well this is demoralizing. Pictures worth a thousand words:


As you can see most of the pushrod cups are severely damaged. If you look closely you'll see one that is actually so bad that you can see through to the cardboard. What the hell could have cause this? Preload too tight? I noticed there are no locks on these. Just one Allen screw to tighten. I plan on getting new ones Monday but don't want the same thing to happen to new ones. What else do I need to check beside preload?

I know this is a dumb question but would it be a bad idea to run the car with these? I just want to fire it to make sure I didn't screw up the install.

Click to expand...

DId you shim them properly and/or use the correct length pushrods? What did you set the preload. at?

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 6, 2015

#57

• Jul 6, 2015

• #57

mikestang63 said:

DId you shim them properly and/or use the correct length pushrods? What did you set the preload. at?

Click to expand...

I did not install these. I researched a bit and will be double checking the pushrod length before ordering new rockers. None of them were shimmed.

 

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician

Aug 27, 2012

11,606

8,859

214

In the garage

Jul 6, 2015

#58

• Jul 6, 2015

• #58

m3x1c0 said:

I did not install these. I researched a bit and will be double checking the pushrod length before ordering new rockers. None of them were shimmed.

Click to expand...

There is your problem. Pedestal mounted rockers require shims

 

m3x1c0

Member

Oct 24, 2013

76

2

9

Jul 6, 2015

#59

• Jul 6, 2015

• #59

mikestang63 said:

There is your problem. Pedestal mounted rockers require shims

Click to expand...

I always thought that was a bandaid. these heads have been ported/ machined. isnt it possible they have been adjusted for the rocker/pushrod length?

 

mikestang63

SN Certified Technician

Aug 27, 2012

11,606

8,859

214

In the garage

Jul 6, 2015

#60

• Jul 6, 2015

• #60

m3x1c0 said:

I always thought that was a bandaid. these heads have been ported/ machined. isnt it possible they have been adjusted for the rocker/pushrod length?

Click to expand...

Sure it is possible but I didn't see you assemble the engine.


To get the corrrect preload on the pedestal mount rockers

1) Rotate motor so a pair of rockers are on the base circle of the cam (both valves completely closed).
2) Loosen both rockers til you have some lash between rocker ends and pushrod tip.
3) One hand on the socket, one hand on the rocker -- slowly tighten bolt whilemoving the rocker arm back and forthr with the other hand.
4) When the rocker just barely reaches the point where you no longer have any gap on either end and you feel a drag when you spin the pushrod you are at zero lash.
5) Torque down the rocker arm and count the number of turns it takes to reach 20 ft-lbs.You should reach 20 ft-lbs. somewhere between 1/4 and 1 turn of the bolt. If you do - your preload is in the required range.
6) If it takes more than one turn- your pushrods are too long and you use shims to raise that rocker until you hit the required torque between 1/4 turn and 1 turn or get different size pushrods.
7) If it takes less than 1/4 turn your pushrods are too short. You can either remove clearence the bottom of the rockers, or get shorter pushrods.

 

Last edited: Jul 6, 2015