Patriot Performance

tjmaxx · Mar 26, 2009

Are the Patriot performance heads worth buying over stop PI heads? And what is the power difference if any between the stage 2 and stage 3 heads? I was thinking about getting the Trickflow ones when they come out but there about $700 more than the stage 3 Patriot Performance ones? These will be going on my NPI 1996 gt with basic bolt ons. My plans are heads of some sort?, comp cams prolly 270's and a stock PI intake or possibly a proffesional products one and a Xcal tuner and dyno tune. I would like to get close to if not over 300rwhp.

fast97gt · Mar 26, 2009

for the money the PI heads are well worth it compared to spending that kind of money on sucky ace patriot heads.

98COBRA281 · Mar 26, 2009

ported NPI'S (see sig)

and 300ish rwhp is a ton of fun, and will rape alot of other cars.........

tjmaxx · Mar 27, 2009

How much do new PI heads cost?

darkside03gt · Mar 27, 2009

new PI heads will run you around $800 I believe. You should really sit down and figure out what you ultimate goals are for the car. I would go with trickflow.

oxfordgt · Mar 27, 2009

I run patriot stage 3 heads and they are great and not a single problem. The difference between the stage 2 and 3 are the valve sizes.

Green&GoldGT · Mar 27, 2009

When's the last time you've heard a problem with Patriots heads? They make good power for the money.

A rep from Patriot said one of the issues with their heads was when a customer wanted the valve guides undercut for better flow, which I believed dropped a valve. This isn't Patriot's fault or a reason for everyone to call their product crap. One persons hears of a problem, and multiple people spread it over the net. Now one story can seem like it happened to many people.

Green&GoldGT · Mar 27, 2009

98COBRA281 said:
ported NPI'S (see sig)

and 300ish rwhp is a ton of fun, and will rape alot of other cars.........

Do you have a dyno graph to post up? Not that I deny it, but to compare power bands to ported PIs.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 27, 2009

98COBRA281 said:
ported NPI'S (see sig)

and 300ish rwhp is a ton of fun, and will rape alot of other cars.........

You just love to whore out your combo every chance you get, don't you?

tjmaxx · Mar 27, 2009

I guess ill wait and see what the Trick Flow are like. But were is the best place to buy the patriot performance heads? I really just want to break the 300rwhp mark! Thats really my only goal for the car and id like to do it NA just incase I want more power later than I can throw on some nitrous or forced induction.

98COBRA281 · Mar 27, 2009

Green&GoldGT said:
Do you have a dyno graph to post up? Not that I deny it, but to compare power bands to ported PIs.

here you go, this was the base tune, thats why the AFR is a little wacky, but its fixed now, and put down the same power.....

Gearbanger 101 said:
You just love to whore out your combo every chance you get, don't you?

yup.....

Green&GoldGT · Mar 27, 2009

I guess stangnet is always behind, but Trick flow did release a few dyno charts with bolt ons, all the way up to full H/C/I. 407hp at 6500rpm and 347 tq at about 5500rpm for cliffs notes. that's with their heads, stg 1 cams, and manifold on an engine dyno. Check modular fords or modular revolution for more info

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 27, 2009

Green&GoldGT said:
I guess stangnet is always behind, but Trick flow did release a few dyno charts with bolt ons, all the way up to full H/C/I. 407hp at 6500rpm and 347 tq at about 5500rpm for cliffs notes. that's with their heads, stg 1 cams, and manifold on an engine dyno. Check modular fords or modular revolution for more info

Not overly impressive when you consider an engine dyno is probably somewhere close to a 30% difference in powertrain loss by the time you get it to the rear wheels. The ported PI's still seem like the better bet if that's the case.

Green&GoldGT · Mar 27, 2009

TF's are good for drag racing. I'm betting the loss in low end torque was due to the manifold. On a ported PI, VT stg 2 cams, LTs, etc, only gained power above 6k rpm with the TF manifold. You won't beat the TF head's higher end torque or power with a ported PI. TF heads make about 50ft/lbs of torque more at around 6k rpm. And what ported PI heads would peak at 6500 rpm with stage 1 cams? It's been done, but with really nasty cams. I'm not bashing ported PI's as do get good mid range torque. I'm just showing the potential of TF heads without people coming to conclusions. TF heads with a blower would be a different story.

Gearbanger 101 · Mar 27, 2009

If I recall correctly, TF heads also do away with the "swirl damn" in the combustion chamber. This reduces shrouding and promotes airflow at the top end but kills low end torque and efficiency.

Anyone I know who's removed their swirl damn on a set of PI or NPI heads has not only had to deal with giving up so low end torque and responsiveness, but has taken a nose dive in fuel economy. I would imagine the same holds true for the Trick Flow castings, so keep this in mind if anyone plans on running these on a car designed predominantly for street use.

Green&GoldGT · Mar 28, 2009

TF reversed the rocker to move the intake valve on the other side of the combustion chamber to reduce valve shrouding. But i agree with you that the swirl dam increases flow and keeps the compression ratio higher for factory ported heads.

y2k02 · Mar 28, 2009

Green&GoldGT said:
TF's are good for drag racing. I'm betting the loss in low end torque was due to the manifold. On a ported PI, VT stg 2 cams, LTs, etc, only gained power above 6k rpm with the TF manifold. You won't beat the TF head's higher end torque or power with a ported PI. TF heads make about 50ft/lbs of torque more at around 6k rpm. And what ported PI heads would peak at 6500 rpm with stage 1 cams? It's been done, but with really nasty cams. I'm not bashing ported PI's as do get good mid range torque. I'm just showing the potential of TF heads without people coming to conclusions. TF heads with a blower would be a different story.

We need to see rwhp #'s with the TF heads.
Here is my graph from 04 with patriot II heads and comp 270 cams with a stock PI intake. It was still climbing when the pull was stopped due to pegging the maf.
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t165/y2k2gt/100_3644.jpg

Patriot Performance

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