PI Heads With Supercharger?

cobra killer · Dec 11, 2003

6 psi

onlyme · Dec 11, 2003

ahhh

Ahh so would it be safe for this guy who wants to add pi heads with 10:5:1 cr to run 6psi safely? I know you the one everyone looks to here for answers.

blown98gt · Dec 11, 2003

98superstangGT said:
sorry man but your advise sucks! please do some more research and learn a little bit about engines and superchargers before you come spitting out some **** like that. The 10.5:1 compression ratio is WAY to high and would blow the engine in no time. How many engines have you ever built yourself? how many have you supercharged? didnt think so.....ive done plenty of both and compression and superchargers do not go together. Your right though, there are plenty of people that are headswapped and have superchargers....you know why though? they have done bowl work of some kind and have lowered the compression back down to a safe area so they wouldnt have any detination to destroy the engine. No tuner could safely make up for the increased compression. Atleast not for long. Please go dig up and find me atleast 1 person who has 10.5:1 compression or better in their stang with a blower if you think its possible. The reality of it is that you wont find even one, because people just know better not to do it.

the smarta$$ comments arent called for. redgtvert has been around a long time and knows his $hit. have you ever put an sc on a headswapped car? or just read about it online? here is your example of a headswap car with sc that has lasted more than a few days. more like 1.5 years.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409708

this is my post about it on the corral. scroll down to aluminums reply. there is one example. and not everyone with a mustang is on these msg boards. so stop your childish flaming and offer more to this site than just your rhetoric. thanks.

98superstangGT · Dec 11, 2003

blown98gt said:
the smarta$$ comments arent called for. redgtvert has been around a long time and knows his $hit. have you ever put an sc on a headswapped car? or just read about it online? here is your example of a headswap car with sc that has lasted more than a few days. more like 1.5 years.

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409708

this is my post about it on the corral. scroll down to aluminums reply. there is one example. and not everyone with a mustang is on these msg boards. so stop your childish flaming and offer more to this site than just your rhetoric. thanks.

well first off when people make a stupid statement(much like you just did ) they should expect nothing less then to get a smartass response. I have built many engines and use to work for a local shop for a couple years. I have also put several superchargers and turbochargers in cars. It is plain common sense NOT to even attempt to put a supercharger on a car running that kinda CR. Unless your someone like Cobrakiller that knows what hes doing tuning wise and is able to keep an eye on the car and know what to look for before it blows up then you will not want to do it. Maybe if you dont believe me you can scroll back up a couple of post and see that cobrakiller himself admitted it is very stupid to do and he only did it becuase he knew what he was doing and also had to run 100 octane or better for it not to grenade the engine. If RedGTvert has been here for a while then he sure as hell should have known that you dont put a supercharger on with that kinda CR. Oh, and i promise you that i can offer more information to these boards then you could ever take in jackass! Speaking of building engines when's the last time you got your hands dirty? Im sure you have never even changed your own oil much less built and engine from the ground up. so carry on little one to the next thread where you can offer useless info to even more people

98GTVortech · Dec 11, 2003

Did i start a war??

ViperBlue GT · Dec 11, 2003

What about SVO heads? I think they maintain the same CR as the stock heads. The port job that you would get on the PI heads is a very pricy one. Any ideas of what gains I would be looking at with SVO heads?

blown98gt · Dec 11, 2003

98superstangGT said:
well first off when people make a stupid statement(much like you just did ) they should expect nothing less then to get a smartass response. I have built many engines and use to work for a local shop for a couple years. I have also put several superchargers and turbochargers in cars. It is plain common sense NOT to even attempt to put a supercharger on a car running that kinda CR. Unless your someone like Cobrakiller that knows what hes doing tuning wise and is able to keep an eye on the car and know what to look for before it blows up then you will not want to do it. Maybe if you dont believe me you can scroll back up a couple of post and see that cobrakiller himself admitted it is very stupid to do and he only did it becuase he knew what he was doing and also had to run 100 octane or better for it not to grenade the engine. If RedGTvert has been here for a while then he sure as hell should have known that you dont put a supercharger on with that kinda CR. Oh, and i promise you that i can offer more information to these boards then you could ever take in jackass! Speaking of building engines when's the last time you got your hands dirty? Im sure you have never even changed your own oil much less built and engine from the ground up. so carry on little one to the next thread where you can offer useless info to even more people

you make good points but your broad statements are just not true. of course if you are building an a race car and money isnt an option then you would want to go with a built shortblock with lower CR. nobody is arguing that point. but you can put the blower with low boost and timing on a headswap car and have success if you do not get greedy! i replied to your comments b/c of your condescending attitude and instant flame of other people. if you have all this knowledge, why not share it in a more reasonable manner? i am not going to get into the my d i c k is bigger than yours argument, but i am a bit more knowledgeable than you think...or was that comment an attempt to make you look good at my expense? i do all of my own work as well as help others local to me do theirs as i know quite a bit about how these engines work. head swaps, tranny swaps, LT install, lash adjustment, you name it. i am very meticulous and do things right. i believe that is why i have MD after my name! my current project is an 89coupe with built 347 stroker (by me) with hogged out canfield heads and TFS stg 2 cam. ported gt40 lower with downs upper. procharger D1SC making 15psi. i have had my hands dirty a time or two! so lets end this BS bickering and move on.

here is a pic of the coupe it is going in. have a nice day.

blown98gt · Dec 11, 2003

pic...

JLstang351 · Dec 11, 2003

what about a svo roots style charger? There rated at only 5-6psi, and there farely cheap. Oh and you get rid of that plastic intake.

blown98gt · Dec 11, 2003

JLstang351 said:
what about a svo roots style charger? There rated at only 5-6psi, and there farely cheap. Oh and you get rid of that plastic intake.

it will work ok, but the blower isnt very efficient.

onlyme · Dec 13, 2003

svo

The svo heads will keep the same cr ratio I know on the 96-98 and they flow I belive 215 cfm. The roots syle blowwrs arent bad and I belive KenneBell may have one for the 96-98 not sure, I think Saleen may have one to, if not mistaken.

slvrbullIT · Dec 13, 2003

i would like to get an eaton type blower for my car, even though they might not be that efficient, it would still put me over 300rwhp. do you think 5-6 psi and a good tune would be safe. i might also try some thicker head gaskets to lower the cr a tiny bit.

onlyme · Dec 13, 2003

roots

Im pretty sure kenne belle made a roots bloswer for the 96-98 and the 99 up 4.6's also saleen is suppose to have one,and then there is another company I forgot their name. I would go for more than 6psi,I know thats what ford racing roots puts out, but I have heard you can change pulleys on them and even port them for more power.

billyfe390 · Dec 13, 2003

98GTVortech said:
Did i start a war??

No this is normal.

98GTfromGA · Dec 13, 2003

good thing you guys don't have a 4v...they come with 9.85 compression and a bunch of people put blowers on them...i personally think you can have 10.5 compression and be safe with 6psi from an s-trim

blown98gt · Dec 23, 2003

98GTfromGA said:
good thing you guys don't have a 4v...they come with 9.85 compression and a bunch of people put blowers on them...i personally think you can have 10.5 compression and be safe with 6psi from an s-trim

yep...i did it. 417/365 with 6psi and less than 14* total timing! so it can be done. we will see how long it lasts!

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=418102

Drew1287 · Dec 28, 2003

How much boost could a non pi stang run. Let say with an upgraded pump, but stock injectors? when IS it considered pushing it?

Sam98 · Dec 28, 2003

Drew1287 said:
How much boost could a non pi stang run. Let say with an upgraded pump, but stock injectors? when IS it considered pushing it?

I run 11 psi with no problems, but I'm a mile above sea level too. With non-PI heads you won't produce as much power so you aren't as likely to have a connecting rod snap on you at any given boost level, but you still have to prevent detonation. The intake charge will still heat up the same as it would with PI heads, so you would have to compensate for the additional boost by backing off the timing and with the hotter charge you may lose power at higher RPM, but the non-PI heads don't seem to produce any extra power above 5250 anyway. If you are going to use the stock injectors, you will need an FMU and you aren't going to be able to produce much more than around 300 RWHP safely. If you are going to be running higher boost, I would use larger injectors and forget about the FMU altogether. I don't trust an FMU to operate reliably and consistently, which is why I got rid of mine. I wouldn't count on being able to run enough boost to compensate for the power you lose with non-PI heads though, so unless you are just trying to generate more low end torque by having the boost kick in earlier, there probably isn't much benefit to trying to run higher boost on the 96-98 heads...

StangJonGT · Dec 28, 2003

Great thread guys, good read and solid tech. Oh yeah, the bickering is normal. The key is to listen very carefully to what they are trying to tell you, because I think the two camps agree on the subject, I just think they are feeding the info differently.

Jon

Drew1287 · Dec 28, 2003

Well currently I have the vortech v2sq setup on my 97 stang with a FMU. I have the upgraded pump, but I am using the stock injectors. I am only seeing around 5-7psi on my guage and the car really doesnt feel that much faster. The Vortech currently has the 3.6inch pulley, I ordered me a 3.33 to hopefully compensate for these heads.

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