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Progress Thread Pilot bearing VS TOB?

  • Thread starter Thread starter NurseGuy
  • Start date Start date Jun 5, 2019
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NurseGuy

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May 27, 2019
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Sylvania GA
Jun 5, 2019
#1
  • Jun 5, 2019
  • #1
Hey ya'll.

What I thought was my pulley now sounds more like a pilot bearing or TOB in my clutch. There is a chirp when in neutral and when you rev to around 3k RPM. Once it slows back down to idle, you can barely hear it. When you push the clutch in.......it stops. There is MINIMAL vibration in the pedal and no vibration on the shifter itself. I'm running stock transmission with what I think is a modified clutch (unsure what exactly the previous owner installed) and what I was told is a "5.0 short shift". The car shifts fine through all gears and there is no "grinding". Apparently this is a common issue with these SN95's. I'm worried that my driving it will only make the problem worse. How can I tell if this is in fact a pilot bearing v. throw out bearing? I'm thinking about going ahead and putting a new pilot bearing, TOB, plate, etc just to be safe. My local mechanic said he would just drive it like it is and see what it does (he listened to it this morning but never opened it up to inspect). Does this sound right to you guys? I'm looking for like stories, fixes, and/or advise. I'm new to the SN95's. I just don't want to royally f*ck up my car. Some have mentioned adjusting the clutch cable, but, I was under the impression that this car (1997 4.6l) operated via hydraulics and NOT a cable. Someone also said it may be the clutch fork and pivot ball chirping. It certainly sounds similar from the video's that I've watched. I'm expecting at least a $600 - $900 bill. Argghhh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Again, as of now, there seems to be no issue with driveability. I'm also assuming that the previous owner changed out all of the clutch components when he put in the new shifter, gears, and clutch. He won't answer my texts (keeping in mind he is an extremely busy guy). Blanca is my daily driver and to be 20+ years old, has held up great. Thanks in advance guys!
 

Noobz347

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#2
  • Jun 5, 2019
  • #2
Trying to read that made me anxious but I think I got the gist.


Is this a job you would rather tackle yourself? If so, we can help with that.

The repair bill cost is really irrelevant what you're talking about hydraulic TOB bearing vs. Pilot bearing.... There is absolutely no reason to change one without changing the other. No guesswork involved if it's just down to those two pieces. Change them both.

Other possibilities might include a Master cylinder.


My recommendation? Do you have a garage, tools, jack, and stands?
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
17
28
Sylvania GA
Jun 5, 2019
#3
  • Jun 5, 2019
  • #3
Noobz347 said:
Trying to read that made me anxious but I think I got the gist.


Is this a job you would rather tackle yourself? If so, we can help with that.

The repair bill cost is really irrelevant what you're talking about hydraulic TOB bearing vs. Pilot bearing.... There is absolutely no reason to change one without changing the other. No guesswork involved if it's just down to those two pieces. Change them both.

Other possibilities might include a Master cylinder.


My recommendation? Do you have a garage, tools, jack, and stands?
Click to expand...

Not sure why reading this made you "anxious". All I was asking was for input from anyone else's past experience(s) and/or guidance. No, I'm not a mechanic, and no I do not have access to garage or tools. When I referred to "hydraulics" I was talking about whether or not there was an actual clutch cable since someone suggested "tightening the clutch cable". As far as a repair bill is concerned.....it is quite relevant when I don't have an excess amount of free cash to throw around. All I am trying to determine is whether or not this is the TOB or pilot.
 

Noobz347

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Jun 6, 2019
#4
  • Jun 6, 2019
  • #4
NurseGuy said:
Not sure why reading this made you "anxious". All I was asking was for input from anyone else's past experience(s) and/or guidance. No, I'm not a mechanic, and no I do not have access to garage or tools. When I referred to "hydraulics" I was talking about whether or not there was an actual clutch cable since someone suggested "tightening the clutch cable". As far as a repair bill is concerned.....it is quite relevant when I don't have an excess amount of free cash to throw around. All I am trying to determine is whether or not this is the TOB or pilot.
Click to expand...


The reason that it's not relevant is because the same parts have to come out to change either. It would be a waste of money to pull all of those parts [out], change just one, then put them all back in.

Generally, when you change one or the other, you change both so that you don't have to tear it all back apart to do it again.

As far as TOB type, 79 to 04 were all the same. Manual, cable style clutch release:


Pilot bearing: https://lmr.com/item/LRS-7600B/96-04-Mustang-Clutch-Pilot-Bearing

Throwout bearing: https://lmr.com/item/M7548A/79-04-Mustang-Ford-Racing-Throw-Out-Bearing
 

Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
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#5
  • Jun 6, 2019
  • #5
This shows a nice breakdown of type and year:

Mustang Pilot & Throw Out Bearings | Brothers Performance

Shop all Mustang Pilot & Throw Out Bearings from Brothers Performance. Free Shipping!
www.brothersperformance.com
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
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Sylvania GA
Jun 6, 2019
#6
  • Jun 6, 2019
  • #6
makes sense to me. Would you suggest doing the whole damn thing while it's already out of the car? The clutch that is.....
 

Noobz347

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#7
  • Jun 6, 2019
  • #7
NurseGuy said:
makes sense to me. Would you suggest doing the whole damn thing while it's already out of the car? The clutch that is.....
Click to expand...


I most certainly would. You would be sick if in another few months, you had to do it all over again because the clutch was worn.

...and before you ask, I would choose a Dual Friction CenterForce or King Cobra for stock up to decently modified or blown, on a street car.

You might also consider changing the cable and quadrant, and adding a firewall adjuster. Be choosey if you go down this road. Do your research like you are doing for your TOB and Pilot.
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
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Sylvania GA
Jun 7, 2019
#8
  • Jun 7, 2019
  • #8
i am having a local Ford master tech rebuild the clutch and all of the components. Might as well! I'm also putting a new seal and clutch plate while he has it broken down. Sorry to be so sensitive. Just felt like there had been several snarky comments, and by me not knowing the group dinamic, I read into it too much. My bad!
 

Noobz347

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#9
  • Jun 7, 2019
  • #9
Buy a Rear Main seal

They are cheap, you might discover that you need one when the transmission comes out.

It seems like whenever you need to obtain this seal on short notice that it's for some reason, a PITA to get hands on

Just a good idea to have on hand. I think I have 2 floating around in various toolboxes.
 

IIGood

Founding Member
Aug 1, 1998
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Churchton, MD
Jun 7, 2019
#10
  • Jun 7, 2019
  • #10
I'll echo what Noobz said. When my TOB went out a few years ago, the car had 160K on it and was still on the factory clutch. I just did everything while it was out, including the rear main seal.
 

Neuron

5 Year Member
Nov 6, 2016
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Jun 8, 2019
#11
  • Jun 8, 2019
  • #11
If you have to replace the clutch cable make sure it is the Ford Stock Cable only. Replacing the stock nylon quadrant with the aluminum one, new Ford Cable and firewall adjuster was the best thing I ever did, so easy to adjust the cable now.
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
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Sylvania GA
Jun 10, 2019
#12
  • Jun 10, 2019
  • #12
so my baby is scheduled to go in for repair this week. I'm going to have new seal, clutch plate, tob, pilot, and retainer tube replaced. I just see no sense in half assing it and then having to drop the transmission again 3 months down the road.
 
Reactions: Noobz347

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
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Sylvania GA
Jun 15, 2019
#13
  • Jun 15, 2019
  • #13
Update:
New TOB, pilot, fork, slave cylinder, clutch plate, and rear seal. Running great, but, still has a very slight chirp from the pivot on the fork when idling. Was told that the pivot thingy needs to be sanded a bit to roughen up the edges in order to stop this (right now it's smooth and looks almost polished). Sound familiar to any of you guys?
 

Noobz347

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Jun 18, 2019
#14
  • Jun 18, 2019
  • #14
I'm not certain what part you are describing. The TOB on our cars are designed to remain in constant contact with the clutch so it spins all the time.

Chattering is a common issue and is also one of the things that we install firewall adjusters for.

All is not lost however. Sometimes, the chattering will take care of itself as the bearing wears in. If it doesn't, you can try this:

1. Put your driver seat in the rear most position
2. Get your head up under the dash so you can see the quadrant and adjuster



3. Push the clutch in an inch or two
4. As you release the clutch pedal, put your thumb (or whatever else) up against the bottom of the quadrant to prevent it from fully retracting while manually pulling the clutch pedal toward the rear of the car.
5. You will hear the quadrant make a "ratchet" noise. You want only 1 or 2 clicks. No more.
Restart the car and see if the chattering goes away

Of the TOB doesn't make full contact with the fingers of the pressure plate, you will get a "chatter".

Other possible causes:
TOB is junk (happens all the time and it sucks) but this sound is usually more serious than a chatter
Bearing retainer sleeve is galled (this also causes pedal issues and you'd know if this were the case)
Disk/plate chatter (more of a multi-disk and race clutch issue)
Bent pressure plate fingers (pretty rare, you don't have this)
Improperly torqued pressure plate (just something to keep in mind)
Improperly centered pilot bearing (mechanic would know this right away me thinks)

If when it's chattering, you put a little bit pressure on the clutch pedal and it goes away, then the procedure I listed above should cure it.
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
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Sylvania GA
Jun 19, 2019
#15
  • Jun 19, 2019
  • #15
now that i followed your steps above on the quadrant, the sound has disappeared. Mechanic suggested we do a firewall adjuster and upgrade the existing plastic quadrant to a metal one. I will be doing this IF and only IF it starts getting noisy again as I see no reason to keep messing with it at this point now that it is quiet. New clutch is working like a champ as well!
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
17
28
Sylvania GA
Jun 24, 2019
#16
  • Jun 24, 2019
  • #16
So..... turns out my TOB retainer sleeve (tube) is broken. Rather than go through the entire story as to why the first mechanic overlooked this I will just post my question in hopes of some answers. New clutch is in, but, this mechanic noted that the sleeve or "tube" that the TOB slides on was broken at the base and was spinning freely. He said it would be futile to put it back together in this state as it would only eat up the new TOB and clutch leaving me right back where I was when this all started. It is now back in the shop for repair, but I'm trying to get an idea of what is involved. I need to know in case the guy comes back with "oh well you need a whole new housing or a new transmission" (just so I don't get raped again). I know that this piece on a 97 GT is pressed into the bell housing, but, can it be replaced without having to buy an entirely new bell? The piece I'm referring to is pictured above and is broken freely at the base (where it comes out of the housing onto the input shaft. Can this one piece be replaced without major issue or am I looking at a major project here? I'm thinking I saw someone on youtube tap out the old one and then press in a new one from the back of the bell housing. Any input would be most appreciated. I just want my damn car back and for it to be right!
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
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28
Sylvania GA
Jun 24, 2019
#17
  • Jun 24, 2019
  • #17
update: started squeaking again. this time i took it to a transmission shop and they very quickly found that the tob retainer tube was broken off at the base and was spinning freely. Hopefully they can tap it out and press in a new one. Otherwise, I guess i'm buying a new bell????
 

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NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
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Sylvania GA
Jun 28, 2019
#18
  • Jun 28, 2019
  • #18
So could someone please tell me why in the hell it has been so difficult to locate and get a throw out bearing retainer sleeve for a 97 GT? My beautiful car is still sitting behind the shop waiting on this part. NO ONE can tell me the same thing twice. I've heard 50 different versions of whether or not it is interchangeable and whether or not I can even get this fixed. The part is the tube that the TOB slides on. It is broken off at the weld where it presses into the back of the bell. My transmission guy has had the tranny for nearly a week now! Still.... no part! He said Wednesday that he ordered one and that it should be here Friday (today). Guess what..... still no part. WTF is really going on? What can I do to speed up this process???? I'm almost at the point of "sell the damn car as it sits and be done with it".
 

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Noobz347

Stangnet Facilities Maint Tech... Er... Janitor
Admin Dude
Jan 4, 1985
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Jun 28, 2019
#19
  • Jun 28, 2019
  • #19

Search LMR.com for Ford Mustang Parts

Looking for specific Ford Mustang parts? Search LMR.com to find Mustang wheels, drivetrain parts & more to complete your restoration or upgrade your Pony.
lmr.com
 

NurseGuy

Active Member
May 27, 2019
109
17
28
Sylvania GA
Jun 28, 2019
#20
  • Jun 28, 2019
  • #20
He claims he has ordered one, not sure from where. Is this a common issue finding this particular part???? Should I be worried that it is taking so long for my "mechanic" to find a solution to this? I mean.... the clutch is in, everything is ready to bolt back up..... but we can't until this part comes in. FML man. This is just ridiculous.
 
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