Played with a 350Z

echo7 · May 5, 2005

I didnt want to wait for a GT, plus a 19 year old wouldnt get very good insurance on one either. Also, the SHO is a 3.4L V8, the 24 valve V6 is a mid range engine for those years, not top of the line. I think they should have done the same with the mustang and mad a 4 banger "secretary" mustang like the used to for those who just want the style of the mustang.

05Stangster · May 5, 2005

echo7 "I think they should have done the same with the mustang and mad a 4 banger "secretary" mustang like the used to for those who just want the style of the mustang. "

The V-6 is the "secretary" mustang.

Mickey21 · May 5, 2005

No 19 year old tends to get "very good" insurance... Insurance is based on how often the car is wrecked/cost to buy ratio... In many places GT insurance is actually less costly than V6 insurance. Depends on where you live... It is all about protecting the insurance companies money to them. Complete odds game...

If you are concerned mod the V6 later on to get some more umph. As mentioned above, more speed from stock is exactly what the GTs, Special Editions, and Cobras are for. Move up to the power you desire... Enjoy the car you have, they'll make more for you later...

300bhp/ton · May 5, 2005

echo7 said:
Bet that 350Z would beat my v6 though, how come Ford cant get that type of "umph" out of a v6 like these what, 3.0L 350Z? or is it bigger?

echo7 said:
But even though the z is a more pricey car, 300hp out of a 3.5L vs 210 out of fords 4.0L is kinda sad. Thats 85hp per liter compared to 52hp in the ford. Also, the old 97-99 sable/taurus 24valve 3.0L could put out 200hp, and thats a ford non-premuium gas non-expensive car???

Ford do make such a V6, 2.5 and 3.0 forms. Its the Zeetec V6. Used in the Ford Mondeo ST220, thats right 220bhp from 2.5 litre:

It is used as twin turbo unit in the Noble M12 and has 425bhp:

And is the bases of the Aston Martin 6.0 litre V12 450bhp:

The V12 was first seen in the Ford Indigo concept car:

And the Ford GT 90 (it used a Jaguar XJ220 platform, the engine was going to be turbo charged but they decided the chassis wouldn't handle the power, even though XJ220's used to run 550bhp stock with some producing over 620bhp from their turbo charged 3.5 V6, which was based on the old push rod Rover V8 and designed for the Metro 6R4 Group B rally car):

Metro 6R4:

Sorry digressed slightly there, but I think there are two reasons for Ford not using such an engine.

1. The old Cologne based unit gives lots of low down grunt and makes a very torquey motor which is easy to drive and works well with an auto box. By going for a modern unit say the 2.5 Zeetec with 220bhp it would have become a rather revvy engine.

2. The old OHC V8 has been around a while, and while fundimently not a bad engine it is rather limited in what it can offer and remain type approved. By using a 3.0 V6 with 280-300bhp it would be to close in performance (maybe even exceed due to less weight) that of the V8, even with its revised 3v design and 300bhp. In addition it would have lost again the low down grunt, which for the American market would be disatrous.

What Ford really needs is a new V8 engine, maybe based of the Zeetec 4 cylinder design or an evolution of the excerlent Jaguar AJV8. It manages with less cc to produce the same amount of power as the current 3v OHC mod unit, yet also be physically smaller, lighter and more efficent.

Even the 4.0 Jaguar V8 engine with a twin screw blower should be putting out about 475bhp, compare that to the forth coming Shelby, it takes 5.4 litres with a twin screw to produce 450bhp and it is still bigger and heavier engine.

echo7 · May 5, 2005

05Stangster said:
echo7 "I think they should have done the same with the mustang and mad a 4 banger "secretary" mustang like the used to for those who just want the style of the mustang. "

The V-6 is the "secretary" mustang.

This v6 is much to fast to be just a secretary stang. They could get much better gas milage out of a 4 banger, which is what secretary's would want, the look with good gas milage.

echo7 · May 5, 2005

Good info, 300bhp/ton

tjredgt2000 · May 5, 2005

Ford will have a 3.5 liter 24 valve V6 in 2006 but I doubt it will be in the Mustang - at least initially. It is slated to be introduced in the Ford 500, Montego, Freestyle.

shadowland2000 · May 5, 2005

echo7 said:
But even though the z is a more pricey car, 300hp out of a 3.5L vs 210 out of fords 4.0L is kinda sad. Thats 85hp per liter compared to 52hp in the ford. Also, the old 97-99 sable/taurus 24valve 3.0L could put out 200hp, and thats a ford non-premuium gas non-expensive car???

Whats really scary is they get about the same mpg. The twin cam variable valve technology in the Z is far superior to that v6 junk in the Ford.

echo7 · May 5, 2005

I know, and if Ford got 85hp to the liter, that would be a kicking 340hp, not to mention prolly like 370tq (wheen keeping the previous 210/240 ratio)

Aerosi665 · May 5, 2005

echo7 said:
This v6 is much to fast to be just a secretary stang. They could get much better gas milage out of a 4 banger, which is what secretary's would want, the look with good gas milage.

v8 Insurence isnt a big difference at all... I drove an 04 v6 auto and it was slow as ****, even after all the boltons and a true dual exhaust conversion. I got fedup with it and traded it in for an 02 gt 5-spd and my insurence is $20 more every 6 months. I guess it would be more on the new model though ?

echo7 · May 5, 2005

Well yeah, a manual would prolly be alot funner than an atuo, especially when going from a v6 to a v8. Wish i woulda got a manual with mine, i know i had fun with a friends 04 v6 manual, even though i couldnt find the gears. Reminds me of my banshee.

Black2001GT · May 5, 2005

Getting more horsepower out of a V-6 is not that difficult. Increase the size of teh pistons and increase the compression and you have big horsepower from a V-6. You also have to use Premium fuel.

It is admirable what Nissan does with their V-6 but I would rather have a V-8 with lots more potential than a Maxed out V-6

Mach428 · May 5, 2005

TerpGT said:
Nice kill, one of my buddies has a Z and has been talking a lot of trash about my car. Can't wait to show him what's up. Good to see American muscle prevailing

I can't stand when people talk trash and they have no clue what they are talking about and make no effort to reserch a car before they open their mouths. Make sure you get your friend to trash you really bad before that race just to make him look like an even bigger idiot

tjredgt2000 · May 5, 2005

Wow, for an extra $7,000 dollars you get a better V-6. Big surprise.

300bhp/ton · May 6, 2005

Black2001GT said:
It is admirable what Nissan does with their V-6 but I would rather have a V-8 with lots more potential than a Maxed out V-6

Thank you.

This is precisly why Ford didn't put a better V6 into the Mustang. If the base V6 was any better the current mod V8 just doen't have enough performance potential as a show room car (not without FI anyhow which would bump the cost up and then what would be need to do for a Cobra??). So the opted for a lesser V6 that offered good performance and grunt (kinda like a mini V8).

The only other option would have been to dump the V8 altogether and go with a high output V6 as the top range GT and a 4 cylinder as the entry. BUT thankfully Ford learnt the lesson in 70's and none of us would want the Mustang to be a V6'er only.

vacooley · May 7, 2005

The Nissan V6 is far from maxed out. It is a great engine.

However, it is both heavy and expensive. The expensive part is the real reason Ford is not putting something like it in the Mustang. It's all about good performance for as little money as possible.

bleedingvayneAD · May 7, 2005

Wow, that sounded like the past 15 posts

echo7 · May 7, 2005

zero3mach1dsg · May 10, 2005

i'd give the edge to the mustang stock vs stock. but i don't undestand how a car that traps at 100-101mph, can put 3 cars on a car that traps at 100-101mph in stock trim. bot car traps more or less at the same speed. the mustang have better suspension and hooks better from a dig, the 350z have wheel hop, that's why the et difference on both cars,but the 350z can go side by side assuming good drivers. we raced 2 05 gt's from 60mph rolls with my friend 350z, and he kept up with one, and lost to the other one by half car, to 100mph. he was bone stock (2 months ago ). like i said, the edge goes to the stang, but not by much.
once you get the stang tuned up, then is another story

300bhp/ton · May 10, 2005

zero3mach1dsg said:
i'd give the edge to the mustang stock vs stock. but i don't undestand how a car that traps at 100-101mph, can put 3 cars on a car that traps at 100-101mph in stock trim. bot car traps more or less at the same speed. the mustang have better suspension and hooks better from a dig, the 350z have wheel hop, that's why the et difference on both cars,but the 350z can go side by side assuming good drivers. we raced 2 05 gt's from 60mph rolls with my friend 350z, and he kept up with one, and lost to the other one by half car, to 100mph. he was bone stock (2 months ago ). like i said, the edge goes to the stang, but not by much.
once you get the stang tuned up, then is another story

yeah its an odd thing, trap speed and ET, but I suppose trap speed is not time related as it is a measure of what speed can be acheived over a set distance, where as ET is how quickly that distance can be covered.

My XJS will trap about 100mph but its only really a low 15 second car, if it was geared differently (No extra HP) it would probably run nearer 13 seconds but still trap about the same.

Played with a 350Z

echo7

05Stangster

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