Please educate me on widebands

MysteryMachine · Nov 19, 2008

I will start off by saying I know people have talked about placement and things on this subject in the past. I want to know the tech stuff about widebands. Also this is not for my car. As some of you have seen I'm doing some modding to my truck. I spoke to a guy that sells SCT tuners and does tunes on Dodges. He advised me to get a wideband due to the mods I was doing. I realize the meter tells you if you rich or lean. There is also a digital number that shows on the one I'm looking at. I'm guess thats the actual "ratio". Now where I'm really stupid on this subject is what does it really tell you? How can you use what you see on the meter to make things better or know if things are bad? What would I look for to know things are bad? If i get a tuner and a meter and i do see the "oh **** this is bad whatever" will a change in my tune fix that? Pretty much what ever you guys can tell me throw it out there.

I trust you guys with tech stuff. I could ask on dodgeforum but its more performance oriented here so I ask the ones that would know

Thanks Guys

ProKiller · Nov 20, 2008

basically you want an actual number. if you have an idiot light stoichometery meter one its next to useless. the number will tell you the air/fuel ratio. armed with this number and the RPM at which this number corresponds with, you can adjust the timing/fuel to get to a better number.

for example if your running 16.4 a/f ratio, then you are running WAY to lean and will blow something up. so you up the fuel or lower the timing.

MysteryMachine · Nov 20, 2008

So the numbers are backwards? I read last night that the ideal number is 14.7. So what your saying if a number is higher your lean? I figured it the # was higher you would be rich. I guess that explaines why the yellow, red, green lights were backwards to what I thought too. Glad I asked. Another question then is it ok to run rich or will that hurt things too?

I'm probably gonna go with the Autometer cobalt meter. I like how it glows blue. Should go good with my truck. Anyway it has the digital number that's displayed and the sweeping colored lights.

I never know why people hated to buy these things till I looked them up. They are pretty expensive.

Thanks for you help

neoxaero · Nov 20, 2008

Wideband O2 sensor with a gauge shows the A/F ratio you're seeing at a certain RPM/Load allows you to adjust your fuel and timing curve to get optimal power/fuel economy.. or setup a motor safe (slightly rich..) tune

Its good information to have when running a modded vehicle... fuel injected or carb'd

Not sure what you're doing to your truck, but an EGT sensor might be worth investing in as well...

MysteryMachine · Nov 20, 2008

I have a thread about it in the talk section. What's a EGT sensor?
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turbogt · Nov 20, 2008

MysteryMachine said:
I have a thread about it in the talk section. What's a EGT sensor?
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Exhaust Gas Temperature..

They were used to tune before widebands came out...

Stanger007 · Nov 20, 2008

You'll want to be able to correlate the wideband data to your SCT handheld, so a wideband that outputs a 0-5v signal would be great to have. You'll also need a datalogging cable that lets you connect the wideband to the handheld.

For consumer level stuff that doesn't break the bank I like to work with Zeitronix ZT-2, AFX (preferably with NTK sensor), Innovate LC-1, PLX m300.

Wes

revhead347 · Nov 20, 2008

14.7:1 is considered stoich perfect for gas and air. However, at full power you are going to want about 12.3:1 to keep the detonation gremlins away. I don't know how useful the wideband is, because my car isn't happy unless it's like 11.5:1.

Kurt

MysteryMachine · Nov 20, 2008

FYI Wes is awesome. He is very helpful and knows his ****. He took the time to explain a lot of this. He also explained how the SCT works and how to correlate the 2. I was pretty wrong on how the SCT tuning works. I thought everytime I needed something changed I had to send my tuner back. Wes filled me in on the whole process that the tuner just emails you the tunes. I feel kinda dumb now but thats nothing new.

Thanks Wes

94GTLaserRC · Nov 20, 2008

MysteryMachine said:
FYI Wes is awesome. He is very helpful and knows his ****. He took the time to explain a lot of this. He also explained how the SCT works and how to correlate the 2. I was pretty wrong on how the SCT tuning works. I thought everytime I needed something changed I had to send my tuner back. Wes filled me in on the whole process that the tuner just emails you the tunes. I feel kinda dumb now but thats nothing new.

Thanks Wes

:Word:

When I started to read this, I was hoping Wes would chime in.

He da man!

I just put this one in

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Auto...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

and Wes guided me through (or Should I say "suffered" through) the installation and hookup to my EGR plug to read on my TwEECer. Seems to be working fine. When I "get on" the accelerator, I can see the Initial reading go up to 15's for a split second, then dip down into the 11's as the fuel is supplied. Just trying to break the engine in now before some Dyno work.

That gauge is great for the money.
RC

final5-0 · Nov 20, 2008

MysteryMachine said:
So the numbers are backwards? I read last night that the ideal number is 14.7. So what your saying if a number is higher your lean? I figured it the # was higher you would be rich. I guess that explaines why the yellow, red, green lights were backwards to what I thought too. Glad I asked. Another question then is it ok to run rich or will that hurt things too?

I'm probably gonna go with the Autometer cobalt meter. I like how it glows blue. Should go good with my truck. Anyway it has the digital number that's displayed and the sweeping colored lights.

I never know why people hated to buy these things till I looked them up. They are pretty expensive.

Thanks for you help

How Bout We Keep It Simple

The ratio thing is all about parts of ... Air AND Fuel

As said above Stoic is 14.7

That means 14.7 parts of air to 1.00 part of fuel

You said it is backwards

Well ... It is what it is

Consider this way of lookin at it

If you had a ratio of 12.00 to 1.00 ...........

You'd have less parts of air to the one part of fuel
therefore
The mixture would be fatter than stoic

A mixture of like 16.00 to 1.00 would really have that one part of fuel
diluted a good bit so the ratio would be ....... L E A N

That in a nutshell is how those ratio numbers kinda work

If it seems backwards then ... HEY .. as long as you know .....

What is too fat or too lean

Its all good

Grady

blksn955.o · Nov 20, 2008

From what I have seen people tend to make the best power at 12.8-13.1 NA and on say n2o make best power at 11.5-11.8 on avg. Boost...I have not looked into but assume it would be in the 11.50-12.5 target range...I will let those who know more about boost chime in on that.

MysteryMachine · Nov 21, 2008

Grady what I mean by backwards is how numbers are in normal terms. Say you have a high number it means more a low number means less. I thought a high number ment you you had a lot of fuel so it would be rich. Low number means you have less fuel so your lean.

I have no idea what my ideal a/f ratio will be. After talking to Wes after I run it and datalog it all I email my tuner and he will do what he has to do to make it perfect.

Rc that's pretty much the same thing just the phantom style guage. Glad you like it. That makes me glad I picked it for the one I'd like to get. Wes probably suffers through my questions too ha ha

I don't plan on boosting or spraying my truck so I don't gotta worry about all that lol
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Labora · Nov 21, 2008

MysteryMachine said:
Grady what I mean by backwards is how numbers are in normal terms. Say you have a high number it means more a low number means less. I thought a high number ment you you had a lot of fuel so it would be rich. Low number means you have less fuel so your lean.

I have no idea what my ideal a/f ratio will be. After talking to Wes after I run it and datalog it all I email my tuner and he will do what he has to do to make it perfect.

Rc that's pretty much the same thing just the phantom style guage. Glad you like it. That makes me glad I picked it for the one I'd like to get. Wes probably suffers through my questions too ha ha

I don't plan on boosting or spraying my truck so I don't gotta worry about all that lol
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The "Ideal" number can vary from setup to setup. What is good for N/A may not be the case for nitrous/turbo etc. Specially when you start throwing in timing curves/load/etc.

Find a good tuner to talk too if you can, and make small adjustments!

Please educate me on widebands

MysteryMachine

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ProKiller

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neoxaero

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MysteryMachine

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turbogt

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Stanger007

revhead347

Apparently my ex-husband made that mistake.

MysteryMachine

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94GTLaserRC

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final5-0

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