Please help me settle this arguement!

Wart said:

I've seen the very advice given by Dano and Myself given by people who've won National Titles.

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I'd really like to see drag car that holds a national title, and uses an open diff. And I don't mean an 18 second bracket car either.

Joeverb said:

....If you drive it like you stole it, the 8" wont hold. People will argue the glory of the 8" ford all day....because its what they have and they cant afford a conversion right now, budgets suck...... ....You should be able to dig up a 3.55 8" third member around there for under $100. They go for $50 around here and ....

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You bring up an excellent point.

Budgets do suck,

If the only ability one has is to, say, call Currie and have a complete assemble drop shipped, then yes, things get mighty expensive real quick.

Want a stroker? To hell with buying a kit and doing the clearancing and other stuff you can do for yourself in your own block, just call Summit. They'll be happy to send you one already to go.


OTOH, if ones willing to do some scrounging and get their hands dirty things can get really inexpensive real quick.

I got the Versailles rear with newish brakes for $300. Hell, I got the entire car for $300.

I've wanted to do the EFI/ Roller block / OD trans for a long time. So when I was at a school auction and bidding on a '88 Lincoln Town Car stalled at $100 I bid $125. WOw, an entire car for $125. Now I get to play with it. I'm sure I could go to some web site and see exactly what I have to do to install this, as per someone else, but what's the fun in that. And sure, the car loped and didn't run worth a crap, but I suspect this is mostly due to a rotted and leaking fuel line.

As a perk to this, the rear brakes, backing plate to drum, fit the Granada 8". Another brake upgrade.

And the Granada rear? Paid $125 for it too, but with it I got a 120 mph cluster whose plastic hasn't degraded. I bet that cluster housing could eBay for a buck or two.


Yep, with perseverance, patience, tenacity, imagination and the willingness to get dirty hands and learn, one can build a car pretty cheap. At least relatively.

But if all one can do is buy parts and have them installed, damn, they had best not become too attached to their money.

Power Surge said:

I'd really like to see drag car that holds a national title, and uses an open diff. And I don't mean an 18 second bracket car either.

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Nice try, but that's not what I wrote.

And I'm sure anyone who comprehends what they read knows that.

Wart said:

Nice try, but that's not what I wrote.

And I'm sure anyone who knows how to comprehend what they read knows that.

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You said the same advice you are giving, has also been given by people with national titles. For that statement to have any clout, that would mean that the people with those national titles, must be using that same advice in their own cars. If that's not the case, then there was no point of that statement.

And I'm sure anyone who knows how to comprehend what they read knows that.

Wart=Wise beyond words

Power Surge said:

You said the same advice you are giving, has also been given by people with national titles. For that statement to have any clout, that would mean that the people with those national titles, must be using that same advice in their own cars. If that's not the case, then there was no point of that statement.

And I'm sure anyone who knows how to comprehend what they read knows that.

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Don't even think of playing this game with me.

So, the advice of setting up the rear to work the best you can get it before installing a traction device is the same as making hot passes with a title car that has an open rear?


If that's what you got out of what I posted in rebuttle to your 'bench racing' remark , well, all of us get to wonder about you.

Me thinks you aren't sane, or even smart.

1badII said:

Wart=Wise beyond words

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Don't be agreeing with me unless you want to be on someones ***** list.

Not mine, not others, but 'some peoples'.

Guys warts just saying Use what you have first. Theres no need to dish out money on a posi or any other traction lock when you can get enough traction with the open diff. I like the way wart thinks. Perfect what you have and then move on. Dont just keep throwing expensive high tech parts at your car to make it quicker.
Pat

myfirstii said:

Perfect what you have and then move on. Dont just keep throwing expensive high tech parts at your car to make it quicker.
Pat

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Thank you, but that doesn't set well with people who make their living selling expensive, high tech parts.

And I'm not saying that you shouldn't buy those parts, I'm saying that they aren't always the first thing to do.

Eos said:

And wart the bad vibration in my car was caused by a bad driveshaft. The car has absolutely none since the shaft was replaced. Even at high speeds.

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One could hope so.

I think it likely the person you bought your car from, who initally installed the engine and trans, probably twisted the shaft. And a twisted shaft is one way to get the rear shaking so bad your teeth rattle and trans fails.

But you also have the rubber pad mounting, wrap your rear in rubber and you don't get the full sensation of what's happening back there, which way your rear ends moving or how badly the shaft makes it shake.



Since your not feeling anything your probably Ok.

Wart said:

wrap your rear in rubber and you don't get the full sensation of what's happening back there, which way your rear ends moving or how badly the shaft makes it shake.
.

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dang if that isnt another CT in the making

Wart said:

Don't even think of playing this game with me.

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Why not? Because you lose that game everytime you try to play it with me?


In all my years of building performance cars, I never thought I'd hear people tell someone to NOT put a posi in an open diff car for traction, but to rather try to get the car to hook on one wheel first. It still blows my mind that anyone can think that way.

Would you tell a runner to leave one shoe in the closet and try to perfect hopping on one foot first and then compete against other runners with two shoes?

If you have a car that has 200hp, why would you want to transfer all that hp to one wheel instead of equally between two? All that wheel has to do is spin once off the line, and all the power gets transferred from planting the car to spinning the wheel. And try to "dial in" a one leg car? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Let's see.. let me set up HALF my rear suspension to plant one tire, while the other side of the car has zero grip on the track, and I'm pushing up on one side of the chassis. That's a great way build a car that pulls to one side off the line, if it has any power.

There are a lot of factors that going into building a proper rear suspension. Pinion angle, instant center, point of intersect, and other angle settings are very important. Adjustable shock settings are very important. But before you even get to that level of setting up your rear suspension, you need to have the basics done. And the basics are having the proper gear ratio for your combo, a proper locking type differential, and a proper rear tire size and compound to hold the power level you are using.

If you look at Detroits own recipie for high performance, you'll find that almost all factory muscle cars came with posi or locker rear ends. I mean actual performance models, not the cars where someone ordered a hemi in a plain Dart or something. Bosses, Machs, SCJs, Drag pack cars, Cobra Jets, etc. Even all the other brands as well. Same goes for modern day. Even a stock 5.0 came with traction lock rear. You don't build a car that goes fast with an open diff.

I'm still amazed that we are debating this subject.

Oh, I will regret posting this I can already feel the burn from the flames I have a stock car mini spool in my Mach. The mini spool takes the place of the spider gears and locks both axles togeather permently. I put one in as a stop gap measure until I could afford a posi unit. Truth is the mini spool works really well and I have had no problems. I put about 5000 miles on my car and although the tires scrub around corners they have not really shown rapid wear. I have not had any drivability problems at all. It tracks very well in the rain too. I drive my car like a car and even take it grocery shopping. I don't think you could parallel park it, but short of that all is good. I painted lines on the axles and I have checked them a couple of times and the axles have not twisted so far. My tires are date coded 1985 (they are old stock 235/50/13 BF Goodrich T/A's). The car hooks and cooks with little tire spin. I have the stock II 8" with 3.55 gears. In normal driving you really can't tell you don't have a differential. I think if you had a heavy car with sticky tires you would likely snap axles of scrub off the tires. I think because the II is (note to self don't say lite) not heavy and the T/A's are not all that sticky or wide I get away with it.

Eos the mini spool is $33.99 at summit part # sum 67801

http://store.summitracing.com/defau...earchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp

If you put one in be carefull and have the axles checked once in a while for signs of twist

Now I will put on my welding helmit and nomex underware!

Bla bla bla dangerous, knew a guy that lost a wheel, bla bla bla.

I am going to do some Solo racing in the II (low speed pilon racing) so I am going to ditch the spool for a posi, but on a mild street strip car like mine (or yours) you really can't go wrong.

not taking either side of this debate, but about 4 years ago hot rod mag did a group of runs with some instraments and some engineers and they found that a lockup rearend only added the equvilent of 12% more traction than that of an identical open rear

megan, the steeper gears will increase your wheel spin problem if you keep the one wheeler. if you change the tires try to keep the overall diameter the same or close if you want to get any gas mileage with your t-5. i use a 215/60/14( 24.25" dia.) and 3.55 gears and turn 2000 rpm at 60 mph. its a little slower in the 1/4 mile than the original 3.18 gear with the same tire. but quicker for darting around town.
with the 13" 195/70/13 (23" dia) i had more wheelspin than ever because of the shorter tires.
keep in mind this, the traction lock can get you the traction you want. the gearing can get you the quickness as well as having to change the gears more often. you'll be rowing gears much more quickly with the deeper (3.73) than the original ones. the tire dia. will change how the gears feel to you depending on how tall they are.
my II with 24" tall tires & 3.55's revs higher in od and feels quicker than my buddy's 90 5oh with 3.55's and 26" tall gears yet he turns about 1800 rpm.
sorry this is so long and hope it helps you.

My 235/50/13's are only 21.5" tall! with the C4 and 3.55 gears the cruise RPM is off the chain! In my particular case the locked rear axle improved launch drastically. The car used to hook up on the street 50% of the time, now it hooks 95% of the time. The other 5% of the time it is like Cheech & Chong (Up in smoke)