PMS a half a$$ed way of tuning???

caseywan · Mar 6, 2008

I talked to a local tuner today and I was actually calling regarding engine building but he asked me what kind of tuner I had in mind and I told him an AFM PMS. He said that the PMS is a half a$$ed way of tuning cause it's just a piggy back system and you might as well go with a full stand alone system rather than the PMS. He said they use SCT and Diablo for everything.

That's pretty much contrary to everything I've ever heard or read about the PMS system. Is this guy on crack or am I misinformed?

iLkYsPoNy · Mar 6, 2008

1991vert · Mar 6, 2008

both are right i guess. PMS will get the job done, but a standalone would probably be more efficient and give you more room to grow.

he probably wants you to spend $$$ and buy through him

Grn92LX · Mar 6, 2008

The guy is trying to hustle you into spending money with him on what he is a dealer for. Run away fast!

Its not 1/2 assed. Its a piggy back system WITH a standalone option you can turn on if you want. I would Never use a chip over the PMS I have.

1991vert · Mar 6, 2008

Grn92LX said:
The guy is trying to hustle you into spending money with him on what he is a dealer for. Run away fast!

Its not 1/2 assed. Its a piggy back system WITH a standalone option you can turn on if you want. I would Never use a chip over the PMS I have.

Unstreetable. Michael, we need to talk.

strtrcr50 · Mar 6, 2008

Grn92LX said:
The guy is trying to hustle you into spending money with him on what he is a dealer for. Run away fast!

Its not 1/2 assed. Its a piggy back system WITH a standalone option you can turn on if you want. I would Never use a chip over the PMS I have.

I would suspect what he is referring to is certain limitations of the PMS. For example, you really can't run mismatched mass air sensors. Or turn off the EGR. I think the PMS is a great system tho. And a lot easier than things like the tweecer or burning a chip with the moates software.
To the OP, if he's the one tuning your car, I'd go with what he says.

5spd GT · Mar 6, 2008

There are better systems out there.

Good for a budget and user friendly.

LS-what? · Mar 6, 2008

PM me who it is and i'll tell you if they're bs or not

later

Grn92LX · Mar 6, 2008

strtrcr50 said:
I would suspect what he is referring to is certain limitations of the PMS. For example, you really can't run mismatched mass air sensors.

With the newer ones you can.

There are better things out there, like full standalone tuners. I may upgrade to the '04 unit and have adjustable standalone from 2,200rpm and up as opposed to what mien is now, only standalone from 4,000rpm and up.

TokyoJoe · Mar 6, 2008

He prob doesn't have experience with tuning it and would rather turn you on to a chip tune. The PMS will out tune a chip, but a full stand alone will out tune any piggyback...duh!

Foxfan88 · Mar 6, 2008

the PMS works well but it more or less intercepts and changes the signals going to the EEC to get the job done, rather than with a tweecer or a standalone that actually changes the settings in the EEC.

the PMS is basically fooling the computer but it does work and and it easy to use according to most people. i know a guy who had one and it looked pretty cool. i havent set down and used it myself but thats what i gather from checking it out.

strtrcr50 · Mar 6, 2008

TokyoJoe said:
He prob doesn't have experience with tuning it and would rather turn you on to a chip tune. The PMS will out tune a chip, but a full stand alone will out tune any piggyback...duh!

I'm not so sure the PMS will outtune a chip. In what regards?

Metalcop · Mar 7, 2008

PMS does everything that any chip can do, yet you can change the PMS, infinitely, as your setup changes. With a chip, major changes in your setup requires a new chip. Chips are a one-trick pony and are like a polaroid snapshot, in time, for your current setup only. If you intend to keep your car the same, FOREVER, once you get to a certain point, a chip is great. Honestly, who ever leaves their car alone and actually stops modifying it?!

92GreenGT · Mar 7, 2008

Metalcop said:
PMS does everything that any chip can do, yet you can change the PMS, infinitely, as your setup changes. With a chip, major changes in your setup requires a new chip. Chips are a one-trick pony and are like a polaroid snapshot, in time, for your current setup only. If you intend to keep your car the same, FOREVER, once you get to a certain point, a chip is great. Honestly, who ever leaves their car alone and actually stops modifying it?!

What about something like the Moates stuff where you have your own burner and can make changes as your combo changes?

Not to mention you can get all of the stuff for $175, and TunerPro is free to tune the car.

TokyoJoe · Mar 7, 2008

strtrcr50 said:
I'm not so sure the PMS will outtune a chip. In what regards?

"out tune" is prob. the wrong term but definately more capable.

Standalone feature, rpm window activation for nitrous (you also have seperate nitrous tune tables engage automatically with this feature) I don't think a chip can do that, 2 step rev limiter to name a few.

caseywan · Mar 7, 2008

Hmm, maybe I should sell the PMS and go with an SCT 4 position... What do you guys think? Building a 336 kenne bell supercharged looking at making around 500rwhp...

I'm having Bob Kurgan tune it, I'll give him a call and see what he reccommends too.

Rick 91GT · Mar 7, 2008

Personally I would use a PMS over the SCT Evo or switch chip, or the Diablo Pred... Those controllers do not give you the options and tunabilty the PMS does. Sounds like he doesn't know how to use the PMS, I've seen this from other Dyno places as well.

If you want all out stand along, Big Stuff is the way to go.... I think Bob will tune the PMS with no issues at all, he is very good!

Bay_Stang · Mar 8, 2008

for someone new to tuning with an obd1 vehicle piggybacks are simple and reliable. not to mention if you are in an area that requires a bi annual smog inspection like california. u will never pass smog with a standalone. also chips are pretty much a generic guess and check way of tuning. and in all reality u could end up spending a lot more money on getting to car fully tuned for your specific combination. but on the other hand. ive worked alot with aem stand alones and if u have a radical combo the eec-iv can no longer manage there is soo many more options when using a full stand alone. bottom line is for someone with a street car who cant afford to spend 200$ and hour for tuning and dyno use. the afm pms is definately the best option

MysticVobra · Mar 9, 2008

Bob can definitely tune with the PMS. He tuned my current set-up and i couldn't be happier with it. My car has never run better.

strtrcr50 · Mar 9, 2008

Grn92LX said:
With the newer ones you can.

There are better things out there, like full standalone tuners. I may upgrade to the '04 unit and have adjustable standalone from 2,200rpm and up as opposed to what mien is now, only standalone from 4,000rpm and up.

While you probally CAN, Anderson does not recommend mismatching. I spent a lot of time on stangtuning.com researching before I bought the combo I did.

PMS a half a$$ed way of tuning???

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