PMS or Tweecer RT (need advice quick please)

[gatorbytes2]

Hello All, I am trying to decide on a device to tune my 94 cobra. (heads cam and 125 shot zex kit.

My choices are a tweecer RT or an 04 PMS unit

I have heard pros and cons of both, Money not being an issue ( i have 1000 max limit to spend. what would you choose and why?


Tweecer RT pros- cheaper, works well, 4 position memory
Cons- VERY COMPLEX, Finicky, not a huge amount of support from pro vendors/tuners, Laptop needed

PMS Pros- Huge tuner base, ability to tune EVERYTHING, EASY to use

Cons- its $875 vs 550 and i will have to spend 175 MORE to get a data logger.

 

[nmcgrawj]

You dont need the datalogger for the PMS. I dont have one and tune just fine. The PMS also has options to run the nitrous...something the tweecer does not offer.


Hands down PMS Seems like how you talk down about the tweecer being complex...that you already made up your mind....most guys who get tweecers are excited about trying it...not already banging their head because its tough


Only other thing i would tell u to fit into your options is a wideband. Its not a must...but it definately helps. Especially with that nitrous.

 

[Pokageek]

Buy my base tweecer for $250 and upgrade to R/T. Save yourself roughly..$150 even after upgrading to R/T!

 

[final5-0]

Hello All, I am trying to decide on a device to tune my 94 cobra. (heads cam and 125 shot zex kit.

My choices are a tweecer RT or an 04 PMS unit

I have heard pros and cons of both, Money not being an issue ( i have 1000 max limit to spend. what would you choose and why?


Tweecer RT pros- cheaper, works well, 4 position memory
Cons- VERY COMPLEX, Finicky, not a huge amount of support from pro vendors/tuners, Laptop needed

PMS Pros- Huge tuner base, ability to tune EVERYTHING, EASY to use

Cons- its $875 vs 550 and i will have to spend 175 MORE to get a data logger.

If you wanna have a complete setup to tune with the Tweecer you need

Tweecer RT
Laptop
Wide Band

Just letting you know that the $550 price is not a complete system

If you do a apples to apples comparison be sure you can data log and check wot fuel ratio with the pms as well. Everything I've seen about the pms looks like it would be easy to use.

btw, I saw a SCT setup on TV the other day that looked very slick!

Grady

 

[Black95GTS]

TwEECer R/T. You can easily tune your car for NOS with the TwEECer. In fact, I already have a couple tunes made up for a 125 dry shot and I haven't even installed a nitrous kit yet!

The learning curve is steeper BUT its worth it. How can you mod your car to the gills but not consider the computer that controls the mods not to be the most important mod itself? It's pure foolishness to get into modding an EFI engine and ignore the E.

If you're a self tuner then I think the number 1 most important thing is to be able to see the results of your labour in a datalog. Thats the only way you can learn and get better at it.

Adam

 

[nmcgrawj]

I should change what i said earlier. Obviously, both units can "tune" for nitrous since they have different "programs" that u can put in. But the PMS has actual options built into it to control the nitrous itself. From turning the system on to using the right spark and fuel tables...the pms controls it all. Where as the tweecer can give u the right tune, but u still need all the other "safety" parts that add up really quick in price.

And i stand by the fact of with a PMS you do not NEED a datalogger. Would it be nice? Sure. There are 2 different programs that let you go as deep into the eec as the tweecer for the PMS...i dont know too many people with it. At that point, a laptop is used along with 1 of the 2 programs, and the PMS itself...and at that point, i honestly dont think the tweecer can compete unless you bring in the cost factor. The average guy with the PMS tunes it with the PMS and a wideband...thats pretty much what it takes. With a tweecer there is a CRAPLOAD of stuff u can change so i guess a datalogger is probably a must at that point. But with a PMS...its so straight forward...i mean...the only change u need to see is the wideband. You can get wideband o2's that datalog...but i've gotten by just fine with one that doesnt.

I feel like with a tweecer vs pms argument...it goes both ways depending on your view point. Guys who love to get their minds all twisted around the EEC stuff will love the tweecer...guys who like doing it themselves but prefer a easier, simpler with a couple nice "luxury" options prefer the PMS. The one thing you will have to realize is the amount of work and dedication you will have to put in prior to actually doing some real tuning with the tweecer. Where as with the PMS, i mean you plug it up..and start tuning instantly. Joe(vib) had a thread goin...once he solved his mechanical issues, he was out and about tuning the car. Thats something the tweecer can not offer. Unless you're somehow a tweecer genius(insert: grady )


But see that hard part is this.....


They both will be able to attain just as good as tune as the other....so look at the options that come with each unit....look at what you want to do and what u will want to do in the future.....and RUN IT! Cause when it comes down to it its gonna be those "extras" that make the difference and not the tune. That is, if u can surf through all that Tweecer jibber jabber. (read: to tweecer pros)

 

[VibrantRedGT]

Though cheaper the Tweecer like Grady mentioned does require a laptop or PC. So yes its cheaper but the handheld unit of the PMS is much nicer than a bulky laptop. The PMS does monitor O2's, Injector pulse width, RPM, total timing, manifold pressure while driving (and few more I'm forgetting right now). I've owned both and the PMS is much easier to use. We can go on and on about both. You can check the Tuning section for more info. In fact I'll move this thread there.

 

[gatorbytes2]

Thanks guys

Thanks guys, After talking with Spence (very knowledgeable and an all round nice guy from Rhodes customs in Delaware) I have ordered the new PMS from him (wideband and interlog software to come next month) It's pricy but seems worth it to me. (I too liked the nitrous features of the PMS)

 

[mricci]

I should change what i said earlier. Obviously, both units can "tune" for nitrous since they have different "programs" that u can put in. But the PMS has actual options built into it to control the nitrous itself.

Im looking into self tuning, and want to put my nitrous set up on. What does the PMS actually have to control nitrous. Because i still have to buy a window switch. so the price difference might be less considering that.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Thanks guys, After talking with Spence (very knowledgeable and an all round nice guy from Rhodes customs in Delaware) I have ordered the new PMS from him (wideband and interlog software to come next month) It's pricy but seems worth it to me. (I too liked the nitrous features of the PMS)

Good decision, you'll be more than satisfied

Im looking into self tuning, and want to put my nitrous set up on. What does the PMS actually have to control nitrous. Because i still have to buy a window switch. so the price difference might be less considering that.

The PMS can be hooked up to the solenoids on the system to spray the juice. No need for the window switch. The PMS monitors throttle position and rpm so it can activate the nitrous itself. Here it is from the manual...atleast part of it.....

"Terminal number B3 in the plug connecting the PMS wiring harness to the PMS CPU (see drawing of plug*) is used to activate the N O Fuel and Timing tables. The N O tables become active when 12 volts is applied to this terminal and the N O feature is selected in the active Data Set. To use this feature, wire the +12V side of the nitrous oxide solenoid to the PMS accessory plug. That way, every time you “hit the bottle” the N O adjustments are applied. N O adustments are made on top of any other adjustmets which might be active (such as WOT). For instance, if you had programmed a WOT, 4000 RPM timing adjustment of +6° and a N O, 4000 RPM timing adjustment of -8°, activiating the nitrous system at wide-open throttle and 4000 RPM will result in a net timing adjustment of -2° (+6° -8° =-2° ) from the factory ECU’s timing. The N O connector can be used for things other than nitrous oxide. Any event requiring a change in fuel and timing can be accommodated by applying the 12V to this connector. For example, in turbocharged applications, an ver-boost switch could be used to add fuel and reduce spark advance at a specified manifold pressure."

N O is obviously for Nitrous

There is also a options menu that you can use 2 different ports on the PMS to activate different accessories...it uses rpm on/off and tps value on/off.

You can read more about it here....
http://andersonfordmotorsport.com/pms/ControllerUsersGuideEECIV7-2004.pdf

 

[mricci]

Thanks for the info, i think that has swayed me towards the pms now.

 

[95WhiteVenom]

Nate that has almost made me consider getting the PMS now that I know it is able to control nitrous flow. I also like not having to use a laptop as well.

 

[fixthedoor]

Sorry, I have to ask... but what does PMS stand for? and where I might find some more info on it.

 

[nmcgrawj]

Sorry, I have to ask... but what does PMS stand for? and where I might find some more info on it.

The link is above...and there is even a sticky for it in this forum.


But, www.andersonfordmotorsport.com for more info along with searching the forums. It stands for Programmable Management System im pretty sure.

 

[gatorbytes2]

darn..

darn i didnt know you could run the PMS in lew of a "window switch" and i just bought a new MSD digital window switch too!, should i send it back ? or is there a benefit to running a window switch and the pms nitrous option? (other then it looking pretty next to my msd6AL in the engine bay?)

 

[nmcgrawj]

darn i didnt know you could run the PMS in lew of a "window switch" and i just bought a new MSD digital window switch too!, should i send it back ? or is there a benefit to running a window switch and the pms nitrous option? (other then it looking pretty next to my msd6AL in the engine bay?)

I would return it. What are you going to do with two window switches?

 

[Redsnk95]

I think this weekend I will need to write a small "paper" stating the differences between the TwEECer and the PMS...and do it in an unbiased fashion.

Oh yea...buy the PMS .

Troy

 

[fixthedoor]

thanks for the link,very helpful. Now with my new found knowledge, I have a question. I've got ram air (cervini's), unequal shorties, after cat and a shift kit. Should this be my next investment to get the most out of a basically stock system, and have the means to accomodate future mods?

 

[Redsnk95]

yes and yes.

Troy

 

[cobramanphil]

Just throwing this in there... the lapt0p does not have to be attached to the tweecer to have the car's computer to run with the moded bin file(s). You can burn your 4 tunes (the fifth one is essentially a safety switch to bypass the tweecer's controls), remove the laptop and you just pick one of the 4 tunes that you want to run via a switch that the tweecerRt works with. I am sure the PMS system is good as well. The tweecer can change tunes on the fly so that is what I especially like about it (does PMS do that too?). I like adjusting each parameter on the tweecer. You an actually tune to the .000x to get the idle correct or the fuel tables dialed in the way you want it. I do kno the PMS does the (+) and the (-) thingy so I am unsure of how accurate a point you can command on the settings.

I don't much about the PMS to be honest, someone told me that the low speed settings were not available? Is that true...that does not sound corrrect Either way..both are good and is pretty much necessary when modding.