Pop starting

[Ike83]

Alright.....my car is ****ed. I'm really upset, and I can't blame anybody but myself. All I want to know, is what is the worst that could've happened?

Of course I have the starting issues just like everybody else when my car's water temp rises over 200 degrees. The resistance builds up to high and the starter cranks over too slow. So I'm on my way home from work last night and I'm floating on air because I've just risen to the top of the board in sales (that's right, I'm currently the #1 salesman in the company out of 66 people) and when I get home my fiance and I are going to go to a pool hall and try out my new McDermott que that I bought a few days ago.

So I get off the highway at my exit and I come down the road to my apartment complex. I'm right outside the complex at the stop light and I had to slam on the brakes b/c of the cars in front of me stopping suddenly. Well, with my car not being tuned to the aftermarket camshaft, my car dies (apparently due to sudden vacuum loss). Now I'm in the left turn lane (waiting to turn into my apartment complex) and my car won't start b/c of the hot starter. Talk about embarassing, I now have seven or eight cars lining up behind me wondering why I'm not making this left.

So I get out of the car and walk back to the truck behind me (a GMC of course). I explain to him in a matter of seconds as to why my car won't start (he was a younger dude like myself) and he seemed eager to help. Of course I'm sure it was b/c he wanted to get home as soon as possible like the rest of us. So I have him pull up to my bumper and nudge me into the apartment complex.

When you turn into the complex it rolls slightly down hill and then forks to the left or the right. My room is down to the right so I'm turning right and the car is coasting. I figure now should be a good time to pop start it.

NOW......I've pop started my car a few times. A couple times on the highway in 5th gear which started it right up no problem, and a couple times while coasting downhill around 20-30 mph in 2nd gear. Well, this time I'm not rolling so fast, so I decided to pop start it in first gear. Before I let the clutch out I think to myself, should I be doing this in first gear? Oh well....here goes........

I let the clutch out and armageddon follows. My car jolted SO violently my intake tube came apart. The car seemed like it started, but was only half as loud running as it usually sounds. I put my foot down, and the car didn't go anywhere. I quickly shut it off and let the car coast down to the bottom of the hill. Unfortunately, I have to go up a hill now to reach my parking space, so I'm stuck at the bottom of a valley now.

I'm sweating badly b/c it's hot as hell, AND now I don't know if I just broke my car. I tried starting it but obviously the starter is still too hot. It felt like my clutch pedal wasn't as tight as usual so I'm also thinking I blew my clutch. I'm also thinking my transmission blew and rear end is gone and my engine is shot. So I'm tripping out BIG time. So I calm down and put the car in neutral and see if the car rolls backwards, it does. I'm thinking my differential is OK. I put the car in GEAR and see if it rolls backwards, it won't. I'm thinking my transmission is OK. The clutch must still work if I can put it in gear, so the clutch is hopefully OK. All that is left is to see if it will start.

I waited 30 minutes before it would actually start and when it did, something was wrong.

I hear the most god awful tapping noise coming from my engine. It's as if my valvetrain is three times as loud as normal. Something is loose. I limped it back into a parking space and shut it off thinking my engine would blow at any second.

I have NO idea what's wrong with the engine, but it is definitely coming from the valvetrain. It's a loud tapping noise. Has anybody ever heard this noise or have any idea what could be the problem?

 

[gerzen]

well the fisrt thing to do is remove both valve covers, and look for a losing roker arm, ones i have the same noise in my 5.0 roller engine that time the little "spaider" that hold down the "H" conectors of the roller lifter was broken and one of my roller lifter was rotate and that make a lot of noise in the roker arm because it was like the lifter was empy so beetwen the roker arm and the valve was a lot of clearence, mayve is a lossing roker arm dont worry the fisrt thing to do is remove the upper intake and both valve cover or if you can notice which of the two heads is the noise become just remove that valve cover let us know what happen

 

[Ike83]

My buddy said I've probably dropped a lifter. I'm looking to put a new valvetrain in one day anyway, I just wasn't looking to do it so soon. Anyway, I guess now's a good time to break the engine down and check my camshaft specs too. I wish I knew what the specs were already so I could just go ahead and order new roller rockers, springs, and lifters.

In any event, a broken lifter is no big deal right?

 

[Ike83]

Has anybody ever done damage to their vehicle by pop starting it in first gear?

 

[gerzen]

the risck about the broken lifter is that the lobe of the cam maybe was damage, i think that is very strange that your situation is the result of try to star the engine like teh way that you did, i think maybe the engine was off in fisrt place, when you was waiting to do the left turn, because he trouble in the valvetrain.

the first thing remove your valve cover and identify where is the problem the remove your lower intake and see if the roller damage the lobe came, in mi case when mime broke the lifter hit the lobe cam a little but whit no consecuences, so i just replace the lifter and reuse my cam whit no problem

 

[Ike83]

I don't understand how this happened though? My question really should be.....is pop starting the vehicle in first gear not a good idea? Are you only supposed to pop start it in 2nd or 3rd?

 

[U2SLO450]

I don't understand how this happened though? My question really should be.....is pop starting the vehicle in first gear not a good idea? Are you only supposed to pop start it in 2nd or 3rd?

either gear will do fine.

 

[samickguy15]

First gear sometimes makes it a jerky start when you "pop" start it like that. Thus the reason why most people use second. Like they said, pop the vc's and check rockers, pushrods, etc. Go from there...

 

[Mustang5L5]

You are not really supposed to push start at all, but if you do do it, use 2nd gear.

 

[Ike83]

I've got the baddest ass mechanic in the whole ****ing region on his way over to my house right now while I'm at work. He said he'll call me in 2 hours and let me know what the problem is.

He's a Chevy guy, but he said he respects the bottom ends in the 302s so we can pretty much rule that out. Then he told me not to get a big head b/c he said that. But he's got me calmed down to the point to where I can actually focus at work again. I've been irritated all day b/c of this and I can't wait to actually figure out what's going on.

We both have reason to believe it's going to be a push rod or lifter problem. I don't know too much about cars but I've heard sounds like this before and it sounds like that's what's going on with my car at this point.

I just can't get over the fact that this was MY fault. I did this to the car, the car didn't do this to me.

Is there any way to make sure my clutch is Ok? I mean, i put it into gear and drove it back into my parking space when I finally got it started after 30 minutes or so, but is that proof enough that everything's ok with the clutch/flywheel/tranny?

I didn't see any fluids under my car and there weren't any pieces of metal anywhere under the car or on the street anywhere. Should I be ok with everything in that aspect...I mean....I do have a King Cobra Clutch.

It just felt like my clutch slipped pretty hard when I dumped it in first trying to pop start it. I was freaking out thinking I broke my tranny and smoked my clutch, but it did go into gear and grab allowing me to go forward (after I got it started), so that means everything's fine right?

 

[samickguy15]

I very highly doubt anything happened to the clutch or tranny. It would take alot of abuse to break or harm either with a "pop" start.

 

[v8only]

usually your clutch cable is the first thing to break from something like this. I've push started my 5L probably 2 or 3 dozen times in first gear over the last ten years, and have NEVER had an issue of any sort.

Are you sure you have starter issues?? Perhaps your motor cranks slowly over 200 degrees because something internally was expanding/failing under the heat, and giving it that sudden jerk broke it loose...in other words, it cranks slowly when hot because your engine was beat to begin with...Just a thought.

 

[lang williams]

have you thought of heat wraping the headers or heat shielding the starter to see if it helps? sounds like the easiest/cheapest fix to start with.

 

[NKau]

If you are trying to push-start, I'd always use a higher gear like 3rd. Less shock do your drivetrain/powertrain when you engage the clutch. I seriously doubt pop-starting the car resulted in any of the trouble you are experiencing. Also, don't just go buying parts without first finding out what the problem is.

 

[Mustang_Punk]

I think that you must have been going faster than you thought and revved the engine too high causing valvetrain damage

 

[Ike83]

Great news! Well.....surprising to say the least. My buddy finally showed up this morning and we started it up. Amazingly, it ran pretty good. There was no noise at first, but after running it for half an hour, you could slowly hear it tick a little bit. He said it's just a lifter which is why it'll make more noise when it's hot.

In any event, we took it around the block and at first he couldn't get it into 2nd gear while the car was slow rolling at 5 mph, so he's banging the shifter back into 2nd and you can hear these loud metallic clanks. He had me worried there a little at first until we switched seats and I drove.

Immediately I started laughing b/c my T5 NEVER goes into 2nd when the rpms are anywher below 1000. So the clutch is fine, felt good and tight as always. My transmission has bad synchros.........

......which ultimately means everything is EXACTLY the way it's been for the last year.....

Anyway, this just gives me a reason to put a new valvetrain in which is something that I've been wanting to do in the first place. PLUS, this gives us both a chance to pull the front of the motor off and check the specs on my cam.

I can't ****ing wait. I will be dropping it off at his house in a few days and the games will begin. What I'm really excited about, is the chance to work on my own engine and really learn some ****.

Matter of fact, he was telling me about two kinds of lift, "true lift" and "advertised lift" when it comes to matching up the cam with the rocker arms and what size rocker arms to use. All very interesting to me.

I think it's time we replace everything on the top end: valvetrain, head and intake gaskets, the whole nine yards. Should run like a champ after that!

Oh, and I'm ALSO having him put in a high torque mini-starter before I drive it again. But all in all, WE'RE GOOD!

These 5.0s are pretty damn tough blocks. I think I'm gainin more and more respect for the Ford from my mechanic friend....

.....and he's a Chevy guy.

 

[v8only]

good news.

I do hope you plan on upgrading to new heads and intake when you upgrade your cam and rocker arms, otherwise you're going to do all that work for basically nothing.

 

[Mr. Rustypwnz]

whoa happy, before you put that starter on, run you a fat 4 gauge ground right off the bellhousing to the strut tower, make sure its clean metal as well, I have had many problems with hot starting a 5.0 starter, and its either 2 cases, long tube headers making the thing get heat soaked or a bad or loose ground, in my case i had lt's on my 86 it wouldnt start for anything after it got hot, I was thinking it was my lt's, but my awesome mechanic, pointed out to me that the ground strap looked like ass, I swapped the strap out with a 4 gauge unit like described, and no more problems, even in 100 deg. heat, I can stall it out running the e-fan on full force and no worries!!! just buy you a cable and put it on and I swer to you it will make life easier for ya!!!