Porting TW heads worth it?

CManT1914 · Jun 27, 2005

I still have 2 weeks before I do my heads/cam swap. I was originally thinking about getting the heads ported, but kinda changed my mind. Now I'm thinking about it again. Would there be any benefits to getting a good port job done? Would I lose to much low-end or anything? I have 1.7's going on my intake valves (which puts lift at .530"), but since the heads don't really flow past .500", would I see some gains up top?
-Chris

Oh, and how much am I looking at for a decent port job?

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2005

Chris

Before I'd put money out for a port job on those heads I'd look at the whole combo and see what the weak spots might be, if you have any.

Those heads, as they are, should make 300rwhp or better.

Say its $400 to $600 for the port job.

Those heads, after the port job can now be able to make 20 to 40 more hp.

If you got something in your combo that is a weak spot................
that may hold you back from not even reaching the smaller of the two goals, even with the port job.

Later
Grady

CManT1914 · Jun 27, 2005

final5-0 said:
Chris

Before I'd put money out for a port job on those heads I'd look at the whole combo and see what the weak spots might be, if you have any.

Those heads, as they are, should make 300rwhp or better.

Say its $400 to $600 for the port job.

Those heads, after the port job can now be able to make 20 to 40 more hp.

If you got something in your combo that is a weak spot................
that may hold you back from not even reaching the smaller of the two goals, even with the port job.

Later
Grady

I have the TFS Stage 1 cam, and a ported 95 Cobra intake. I guess the weak point would probably be the intake. I'll be flowing more than .500" of lift on both intake and exhaust, so it shouldn't be the cam.

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2005

CManT1914 said:
I have the TFS Stage 1 cam, and a ported 95 Cobra intake. I guess the weak point would probably be the intake. I'll be flowing more than .500" of lift on both intake and exhaust, so it shouldn't be the cam.

I think you know I was not trying to point at any paticular part in your combo.

It looks like from your reply, you got the idea I was trying to get across.

It should go without saying that if your goal is MORE than the typical 300 to 325rwhp street combo you see on these sites, the port job would be helpful.

Later
Grady

CManT1914 · Jun 27, 2005

final5-0 said:
I think you know I was not trying to point at any paticular part in your combo.

It looks like from your reply, you got the idea I was trying to get across.

It should go without saying that if your goal is MORE than the typical 300 to 325rwhp street combo you see on these sites, the port job would be helpful.

Later
Grady

I would like to be making between 325 and 350 rwhp, but I'm not sure I can do it with just the H/C/I setup I have. I know this is a retarded question, but any ideas how much I will be pushing without the port job? I would like to get it done, but I'm not sure I can scrounge up the money before my deadline (I'm doing the install in 2 weeks).

final5-0 · Jun 27, 2005

CManT1914 said:
I would like to be making between 325 and 350 rwhp, but I'm not sure I can do it with just the H/C/I setup I have. I know this is a retarded question, but any ideas how much I will be pushing without the port job? I would like to get it done, but I'm not sure I can scrounge up the money before my deadline (I'm doing the install in 2 weeks).

Search for the details and dyno pulls of these two 300+ rwhp combos as they both had TFS heads/cam I believe. There are others I'm sure but these two just happened to be in my Excell file.

chopped liver

Grn92LX

Later
Grady

96darkhorse · Jun 27, 2005

you gotta meet a deadline?? you should just wait and get the port job and install after..... your only giving your car more potential with waiting, and that is worth, atleast for me

CManT1914 · Jun 27, 2005

final5-0 said:
Search for the details and dyno pulls of these two 300+ rwhp combos as they both had TFS heads/cam I believe. There are others I'm sure but these two just happened to be in my Excell file.

chopped liver

Grn92LX

Later
Grady

Will do, thank you Grady. I'll let you know if I have anymore questions.

96darkhorse said:
you gotta meet a deadline?? you should just wait and get the port job and install after..... your only giving your car more potential with waiting, and that is worth, atleast for me

Well if I don't do it July 8-10, then it won't be until end of August at the earliest that I can have time to do it. I am NOT gonna have somebody else do it for me, I don't trust ANYONE that much. And I'm not gonna have $2000 worth of parts just sitting around my room for 2 months or better. I spent the money to make my car fast, I want it fast now dammit!! lol

96darkhorse · Jun 27, 2005

CManT1914 said:
I spent the money to make my car fast, I want it fast now dammit!! lol

i know exactly what you mean !! im the same way!!!!

TMC · Jun 28, 2005

That TFS 1 cam is a weak point IMO. Most cars making 300+ rwhp use either a custom cam or something larger off the shelf. The Cobra intake is also a bottleneck but you can make 300+ rwhp with it. Your goal of 325-350 rwhp is unrealistic with your current setup IMO. You'll most likely fall in the 280 rwhp range with the parts you have right now.

cavscout371 · Jun 28, 2005

I had the same problem but I decided that the porting could wait fox lake wanted I think $800 and to me that was money that could be spent elsewhere. Plus you can alway do it later, I think you should get the parts on as soon as you can and go out and have some fun with it.

mackey · Jun 28, 2005

TMC said:
That TFS 1 cam is a weak point IMO. Most cars making 300+ rwhp use either a custom cam or something larger off the shelf. The Cobra intake is also a bottleneck but you can make 300+ rwhp with it. Your goal of 325-350 rwhp is unrealistic with your current setup IMO. You'll most likely fall in the 280 rwhp range with the parts you have right now.

I've seen lots of TFS kits pull over 300 hp to the rear wheels. I think with the port job on the heads and 1.7rr's he really should see the 325-350hp range.

95snoozer · Jun 28, 2005

ditch the intake and ditch that cam... if anything lose the cam

just as a reference a guy on here had lightly ported twisted wedges itty bitty AFM cam i am talkin 216/222 duration and a stage II afm ported performer intake.

he made 224/238 and the power fell off a cliff due to the tune and intake. it was still climbing and would have made more.

cam it right and run a holley intake or rpm and see what happens

CManT1914 · Jun 28, 2005

TMC said:
That TFS 1 cam is a weak point IMO. Most cars making 300+ rwhp use either a custom cam or something larger off the shelf. The Cobra intake is also a bottleneck but you can make 300+ rwhp with it. Your goal of 325-350 rwhp is unrealistic with your current setup IMO. You'll most likely fall in the 280 rwhp range with the parts you have right now.

280? I really don't see my parts as only putting out 280rwhp. With the port job on the Cobra, it should (I say SHOULD, because looking at the out-of-the-box flow ratings, the 95 Cobra isn't much below the Eddy at all, and the Eddy is a real good intake) flow pretty good. I know it helped out a BUNCH on my setup now, and it helps it pull a LOT harder up top. I know the cam doesn't have insane lift either, but come on, with some 1.7's (although I'm only putting those on the intakes for now, I might buy a full set of 1.7's later on) it will still have some good flow.

mackey said:
I've seen lots of TFS kits pull over 300 hp to the rear wheels. I think with the port job on the heads and 1.7rr's he really should see the 325-350hp range.

Yea! As far as I know, TFS still advertises that with these heads, Stage 1 cam, and their intake (which we all know isn't the greatest) you're supposed to be putting out 350 or so at the flywheel. Now I'm a little skeptical of that, I mean to go from 215 to 350 with just H/C/I? But I don't see how I couldn't be pushing that with my other mods (TB, MAF, Powerpipe, fuel system). Maybe I'm just grasping at false hope, lol. What about without the port job? I meant to bring my heads with me today so I could run by the machine shop on my lunch break, but I need a haircut more than I need a port job, lol.

95snoozer said:
ditch the intake and ditch that cam... if anything lose the cam

just as a reference a guy on here had lightly ported twisted wedges itty bitty AFM cam i am talkin 216/222 duration and a stage II afm ported performer intake.

he made 224/238 and the power fell off a cliff due to the tune and intake. it was still climbing and would have made more.

cam it right and run a holley intake or rpm and see what happens

224/238??!! I should be pushing that already! lol. This isn't very encouraging guys!! I just wanted a good 325 to the wheels, I asked, people suggested the Stage 1 cam, the TW heads are supposed to flow nearly as much as the 185's, and now I'm hearing I might not even break 300!! GAH!!!

Okay I'm better now.

final5-0 · Jun 28, 2005

Chris

If you will spend some time looking at old threads you'll find lots of TFS combo dyno results to be as low as 260rwhp. The same could be said for Edel & AFR combos as well.

Again, if you do your research, you'll see trends develope with the lower results and the higher results as well.

As for the goal of 325rwhp.

Tell you what.......................

Post up, right here in this thread, how many stock block NA h/c/i combos you know about at 325 or better.

Not trying to bust your chops or anything. I'm just trying to show you 325 or better to the wheels might be a little bit more of a challenge than you think.

Later
Grady

cavscout371 · Jun 28, 2005

I think you wont know till you throw on the parts and I havent dyno'd mine yet but I'm sure I have more than 224 hp. I think you will be pleasantly suprised and it wont be by hp/tq numbers it'll be from mashing the pedal the first time you rap it up to 6k's.

Also the stg1 is a good cam for what it is a cheap off the shelf cam that is made to work with stock pistons and ruffly your setup because if I remember right a good price was part of your quest for a cam. I wanted to go custom myself but ran out of $$ and time plus I already had the stg1 as part of the package.

Joes95GT · Jun 28, 2005

A few things...

Troy (TMC) is right, again. You're not going to see much more than 285 RWHP with that cam. The intake is well suited to that cam, the goals are you trying to achieve are not well suited to the cam or manifold.

You're going way too deep into the flow numbers, too. I know of box-stock TFS TW heads that have cams with damn near .600" of lift on them. Just because they don't flow terribly *more* as lift increases doesn't mean that it's pointless to have a cam that doesn't exceed .XYZ" lift.

Joe

TMC · Jun 28, 2005

.

CManT1914 said:
280? I really don't see my parts as only putting out 280rwhp. With the port job on the Cobra, it should (I say SHOULD, because looking at the out-of-the-box flow ratings, the 95 Cobra isn't much below the Eddy at all, and the Eddy is a real good intake) flow pretty good. I know it helped out a BUNCH on my setup now, and it helps it pull a LOT harder up top. I know the cam doesn't have insane lift either, but come on, with some 1.7's (although I'm only putting those on the intakes for now, I might buy a full set of 1.7's later on) it will still have some good flow.
.

OK…Maybe 290 but I’m not willing to say that 325-350 in anywhere near a possibility. That is simply not what is going to happen. I’m sorry that you don’t like that idea but the fact is that there really are not any cars making that kind of RWHP with the parts you have listed. The power you want is very possible with unported TFS TW heads but the supporting parts need to go along with that to make it happen. In one of your later posts here you said that you had changed your mind about porting the heads. I made my assertions based on the heads not being ported.

So, lets say that your ported intake flows as well or maybe a touch better than the Eddy intake. So what. That is the intake that many people use with Eddy intake/AFR 165 heads/ Ed C. cams and lay down 300-330 RWHP. That’s pretty close to the range that you’re looking for but they have custom cams not the bogus TFS cam you have and not many of them make substantially more than 300 at the tire.

CManT1914 said:
This isn't very encouraging guys!! I just wanted a good 325 to the wheels, I asked, people suggested the Stage 1 cam, the TW heads are supposed to flow nearly as much as the 185's, and now I'm hearing I might not even break 300!! GAH!!!

Did you ask for a cam that could make 325-350 RWHP N/A? If you did and the TFS 1 cam is what was suggested to use than you were lied to. The heads will make that power all day but you are asking too much from the cam and the intake and exhaust are borderline to be able to make the power you are looking for.

CManT1914 · Jun 28, 2005

Grady, I'll see if I can find some more dyno info on the AFR/TFS combos. I searched for Grn92LX like you said (haven't searched for chopped liver yet) but couldn't find much. I did find his thread with his dyno sheet, but it was from last January, so the pic wasn't there anymore. I'll keep looking.

cavs, price was a big factor in picking a cam. I got the TFS cam for $105 shipped to my door, so I feel pretty good about that. Now yall are making me want a bigger cam though.

Joe, that info about the cam outflowing the heads, I'll keep that in mind for the next cam I decide to go with.

Troy, thanks for the bluntness about my cam, lol. I am still undecided about what to do with my heads. If getting them ported is what it will take to break the 300 mark, then consider it done. If I can manage that without porting them (which it doesn't look like it) then I won't.

I know I should have probably gone with LT's, but doing so would have cost me another $230! Here's my question then. Switching out intakes down the road is a piece of cake. But would I be able to switch out the cam WITHOUT taking the heads off? (head gaskets are expensive!! lol) If so, then I'll run this cam for a while, then look into getting an Ed Curtis cam sometime next summer. If I have to pull the heads, then I'll either wait until I blow out my rings (in which case I'll possibly be doing a 347 stroker kit) or if I manage to blow a HG, then I'll swap cams again. So is it possible/hard to do a cam swap without pulling the heads? (I wouldn't think so, what would I do with the valvetrain?) Thanks for shattering my hopes and dreams!! hehe j/k

CManT1914 · Jun 28, 2005

Ooh!! I found some info on Grn92LX's car. He said he put down 303hp and 339tq with box-stock stuff, and ran a 12.88 @ 107 (on DR's but still). Hope is rekindled! I really only wanted to run some 12's, and I figured I would need 300+ at the wheels to do so (especially since I weigh in near 3600 lbs).

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=470060&highlight=trickflow+dyno

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