Porting TW heads worth it?

TMC · Jun 28, 2005

You can change the cam without pulling the heads.

Porting the heads is expensive so why go through that, plus the wait to get them done, rather than using what you have now. So maybe the numbers are not as high as you would like them to be??? If you really are looking to make those numbers happen then it would cost less to sell the TFS cam and pick up a different one and some valve springs. The right cam could be worth 20+/-hp over the TFS cam even with unported heads. You could deal with the intake and exhaust for now and change that as money permits.

final5-0 · Jun 28, 2005

Chris

You've gotten a lot of good advice from peeps who, IMHO know what their talkin about.

Lower your expectations just a tad and use some of the parts you've got and you'll have a lot of fun...Just wait and see.

You can always step things up a bit when money allows.

290rwhp give or take a little doesn't suck, lol..........................
especially if you got a little power under the curve.

Later
Grady

Grn92LX · Jun 28, 2005

CManT1914 said:
Ooh!! I found some info on Grn92LX's car. He said he put down 303hp and 339tq with box-stock stuff, and ran a 12.88 @ 107 (on DR's but still). Hope is rekindled! I really only wanted to run some 12's, and I figured I would need 300+ at the wheels to do so (especially since I weigh in near 3600 lbs).

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=470060&highlight=trickflow+dyno

That I did

Now, put 1 5/8" longtubes on, 75mm tb and install the tfs 1 cam on a 108* centerline and see what happens. Use an rpm manifold instead of the street heat. I ended up swapping the tfs 1 for an fti cam and to be honest I wish I never made that swap. 93hatch on corral made 315rwhp with ported old school edelbrocks, rpm manifold and a tfs 1 cam on a 108* centerline as recommended by buddy rawls. Doesn't matter now, i'm building this now:

CManT1914 · Jun 28, 2005

Grn92LX said:
That I did

Now, put 1 5/8" longtubes on, 75mm tb and install the tfs 1 cam on a 108* centerline and see what happens. Use an rpm manifold instead of the street heat. I ended up swapping the tfs 1 for an fti cam and to be honest I wish I never made that swap. 93hatch on corral made 315rwhp with ported old school edelbrocks, rpm manifold and a tfs 1 cam on a 108* centerline as recommended by buddy rawls. Doesn't matter now, i'm building this now:

Why do you wish you hadn't swapped to an FTI cam? From the very beginning all I really was expecting was a good 300 (okay okay, I was wanting a little more) to the wheels. I figured if the TFS package boasted 350 flywheel, given the obligiatory 15% drivetrain loss, that would come in at JUST under 300 (like 298 or so). So I figured with my full exhaust, the few bolt-ons I have, and my fuel system (still waiting on a fuel pump) I could see at least 300. Now I know that while it is possible, I won't get my hopes up in case I don't see it. Is that pic of your 347? I was looking at it for a minute thinking, "what's wrong with that motor? the top half of the block is gone!" Then I realized it was upside down, and that the "top half" was actually where the oil pan sits. lol Looking good!

95snoozer · Jun 28, 2005

CManT1914 said:
280? I really don't see my parts as only putting out 280rwhp. With the port job on the Cobra, it should (I say SHOULD, because looking at the out-of-the-box flow ratings, the 95 Cobra isn't much below the Eddy at all, and the Eddy is a real good intake) flow pretty good. I know it helped out a BUNCH on my setup now, and it helps it pull a LOT harder up top. I know the cam doesn't have insane lift either, but come on, with some 1.7's (although I'm only putting those on the intakes for now, I might buy a full set of 1.7's later on) it will still have some good flow.

Yea! As far as I know, TFS still advertises that with these heads, Stage 1 cam, and their intake (which we all know isn't the greatest) you're supposed to be putting out 350 or so at the flywheel. Now I'm a little skeptical of that, I mean to go from 215 to 350 with just H/C/I? But I don't see how I couldn't be pushing that with my other mods (TB, MAF, Powerpipe, fuel system). Maybe I'm just grasping at false hope, lol. What about without the port job? I meant to bring my heads with me today so I could run by the machine shop on my lunch break, but I need a haircut more than I need a port job, lol.

224/238??!! I should be pushing that already! lol. This isn't very encouraging guys!! I just wanted a good 325 to the wheels, I asked, people suggested the Stage 1 cam, the TW heads are supposed to flow nearly as much as the 185's, and now I'm hearing I might not even break 300!! GAH!!!

Okay I'm better now.

obviously that was 324/338

with that cam, you might not brake 300.

CManT1914 · Jun 28, 2005

95snoozer said:
obviously that was 324/338

with that cam, you might not brake 300.

Gah.... I should known that. Although I have heard horror stories of people not matching parts up right, and getting HORRIBLE results from it. Oh well.

95snoozer · Jun 28, 2005

i say you stick a real intake on there and a comp xe274 something of that size that will clear.

RPM intake should get you there... port the lower of the intake, and port match.

95snoozer · Jun 28, 2005

how ported is your intake? you might not brake 315 with it but you will haev enormous torque with the right cam... if thast the way you want to go. in a heavy vert i sure would want some midrange i can tell you that dynoing low and going fast is way better than being a dyno queen.

look at the fellow cobra intake fti cam car
or you might look into a ported performer intake that has flow numbers closer to your heads. i know the afm stage II ported flows 265 cfm, at least my friend's did on the car i mentioned. that combo would be great in a vert.

Grn92LX · Jun 28, 2005

CManT1914 said:
Why do you wish you hadn't swapped to an FTI cam? From the very beginning all I really was expecting was a good 300 (okay okay, I was wanting a little more) to the wheels. I figured if the TFS package boasted 350 flywheel, given the obligiatory 15% drivetrain loss, that would come in at JUST under 300 (like 298 or so). So I figured with my full exhaust, the few bolt-ons I have, and my fuel system (still waiting on a fuel pump) I could see at least 300. Now I know that while it is possible, I won't get my hopes up in case I don't see it. Is that pic of your 347? I was looking at it for a minute thinking, "what's wrong with that motor? the top half of the block is gone!" Then I realized it was upside down, and that the "top half" was actually where the oil pan sits. lol Looking good!

Because it wasn't cost effective. I ended up with some lean issues. I should have kept the tfs cam and just added longtubes, a bigger tb and kept my NOS 5115 kit and had fun.

Yes, thats my 347

mackey · Jun 28, 2005

CManT1914 said:
Gah.... I should known that. Although I have heard horror stories of people not matching parts up right, and getting HORRIBLE results from it. Oh well.

Ok I have the trickflow Kit. I ran a 13.2 @106.6 my first time out at the track with a 2.0 60' time on street tires. I still have the stock Throttlebody which is definitely holding me back. I also run Shorty headers. My car makes tons of power, nothing wrong with the trickflow combo that they put together for you.

mackey · Jun 29, 2005

http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=559655

he just made 331 at the wheels with a 302 + the kit.

95WhiteVenom · Jun 29, 2005

Well Chris you can't make everyone happy. Look I have personally seen a heavy ass vert. with basically your set-up. I'm not sure about some of your other supporting parts but anyway here is the jist of it. That vert. was a dude I met at the track one night. TFS heads, Extrude Honed Cobra, and TFS Stage 1. He mainly got the tfs cam cause he said he wanted a off the shelf cam and said he liked the idle. So after talking to him I saw the dyno sheet. This is non ported heads mind you and he was 308RWHP i have since forgotten the torque (dangit!). Anyway that cam will do great but if you port those heads the power range will be a lil higher in the rpms. Therefor this cam may fall of in power on the upper end. I would wait to port them and when you do decide to port them get another cam. Its hard to down talk this cam cause I have one sitting in my room still in the box, but I know you want the truth.
my guess unported heads with your combo so far your gonna be tapping on the 300hp door so to speak.
Don't worry about that intake it will flow great and will love the combo. I however must tell you this If I were you (and this is me not knowing if you have one or not) I would get a fluidyne before installing the H/C/I. IMHO
Good luck and hope you get everything on and running good.

CManT1914 · Jun 29, 2005

Grn92LX said:
Because it wasn't cost effective. I ended up with some lean issues. I should have kept the tfs cam and just added longtubes, a bigger tb and kept my NOS 5115 kit and had fun.

Yes, thats my 347

mackey said:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=559655

he just made 331 at the wheels with a 302 + the kit.

You're my hero Mackey! Although unless I read it wrong, it was 311/337 at the wheels, but STILL! Thanks a bunch!

95WhiteVenom said:
Well Chris you can't make everyone happy. Look I have personally seen a heavy ass vert. with basically your set-up. I'm not sure about some of your other supporting parts but anyway here is the jist of it. That vert. was a dude I met at the track one night. TFS heads, Extrude Honed Cobra, and TFS Stage 1. He mainly got the tfs cam cause he said he wanted a off the shelf cam and said he liked the idle. So after talking to him I saw the dyno sheet. This is non ported heads mind you and he was 308RWHP i have since forgotten the torque (dangit!). Anyway that cam will do great but if you port those heads the power range will be a lil higher in the rpms. Therefor this cam may fall of in power on the upper end. I would wait to port them and when you do decide to port them get another cam. Its hard to down talk this cam cause I have one sitting in my room still in the box, but I know you want the truth.
my guess unported heads with your combo so far your gonna be tapping on the 300hp door so to speak.
Don't worry about that intake it will flow great and will love the combo. I however must tell you this If I were you (and this is me not knowing if you have one or not) I would get a fluidyne before installing the H/C/I. IMHO
Good luck and hope you get everything on and running good.

Are you calling me fat Chris? lol, or just my car? I've been reading about a LOT of TFS combos pushing over 300 the the tire. It's very reassuring. Either way, like Grady said earlier, even 290 is a lot of fun to drive. I'll be happy either way, I just like the thought of being able to say that my car pushes over 300 to the wheels, call me a dork if you want, lol. Why the fluidyne? I never see temps over 195 with my low-speed fan on now, and with my high-speed fan on, it doens't go over 180. Matter of fact, when I'm sitting still it dips a hair below, and that's on the real hot days like today too.

Thanks again!

final5-0 · Jun 29, 2005

mackey said:
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=559655

he just made 331 at the wheels with a 302 + the kit.

Impressive values, those et's and rwhp numbers, they are

However.............

Is there a chart that shows his pull. I did not see one.

rwhp & low et's alone don't mean everything to me when talking Street Cars......even more so, if I had a Heavy Vert.

Just my opinion......but its mine

Later
Grady

CManT1914 · Jun 29, 2005

final5-0 said:
Impressive values, those et's and rwhp numbers, they are

However.............

Is there a chart that shows his pull. I did not see one.

rwhp & low et's alone don't mean everything to me when talking Street Cars......even more so, if I had a Heavy Vert.

Just my opinion......but its mine

Later
Grady

Here's his dyno sheet:

final5-0 · Jun 29, 2005

Several things about that dyno sheet.

Looks like the 331 value is tq, not hp, and the hp looks to be about 310.

Its a Mustang Dyno which would not give results more like what we are usued to seeing on a Dyno Jet.

It would be nice to be able to read the rpm values.

I'm sure the car runs strong and I've heard the Mustang Dyno usually gives resusts that are lower than a Dyno Jet.

Later
Grady

cavscout371 · Jun 30, 2005

I'll see if I cant find a dyno around here somewhere and throw the car on I got to get a new balancer first its making me extremely nervous cars shaking doing 45 1200 r's I'm not going to even through the bottle on till I hit about a 1000 miles on the breakin and get some kind of tune though.

final5-0 · Jun 30, 2005

cavscout371 said:
I'll see if I cant find a dyno around here somewhere and throw the car on I got to get a new balancer first its making me extremely nervous cars shaking doing 45 1200 r's I'm not going to even through the bottle on till I hit about a 1000 miles on the breakin and get some kind of tune though.

If you got a bad HB, don't take any chances of doing damage to the motor.

Be Afraid..........................Be VERY Afraid!!!

Later
Grady

CManT1914 · Jun 30, 2005

Speaking of harmonic balancers, I know when they go bad, the rubber starts coming out. Well I've checked mine several times, and there's no rubber coming out from behind it. But I can reach my fingers around behind it, and I can't even feel any rubber anywhere on the backside of it. Would I be able to feel it just by reaching around, or is it like inside the balancer?

Another question. How would my Cobra intake flow compared to a Street Heat, and compared to a Track heat? I might have a line on either one, so I might swap if it's worth it. Any ideas?

cavscout371 · Jun 30, 2005

final5-0 said:
If you got a bad HB, don't take any chances of doing damage to the motor.

Be Afraid..........................Be VERY Afraid!!!

Later
Grady

I am I havent drove it in a week waiting till tommorow to get paid so I can buy one. The nickel and dime chit is killing me .

Porting TW heads worth it?

TMC

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