Powerslot brake rotors??

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

custom89stang said:
what 73mm calipers will bolt directly to a fox mustang front? You said
a Lincoln Mark VII? what year? what should i say to NAPA/Schucks?

And are the calipers longer horizontally or vertically? i noticed the calipers i currently have (stock) still have an inch of room between the bottom of where the caliper starts and where the rotors center is.

Look at the link above...

The Piston is bigger compared to stock.....

latham83 · Feb 17, 2004

are those calipers hard to install??? whats involved?? they bolt right up or what?
i dont have to mess aroudn with the back drums right..
what the hell rotors should i BUY..if powerslots are "no good"...even if i dotn get calipers..what rotor should i buy...i need some answers guys...

flyinghi3 · Feb 17, 2004

Mustang5L5 said:
FYI...i had powerslots. Warped them in a week. Put a set of Ford rotors on after and never warped them.

i had just the opposite happen to me. when i had my stock rotors on and every time i went to the track, they would warp. i only had them cut once and they only had about 35K miles before i switch to powerslot. i have been to the track a bunch of times with the new brake set up, and i dont feel the car shake when i stop like i did with the stock rotors. after like two passes with the stock rotors i could feel the car shake, but i can go all day with the my new set up and not feel a thing.

gt90stang · Feb 17, 2004

Interesting......there is one more difference......the powerslot rotors are directional and have forced air cooling. The stock solid rotors are not directional and are just vented with no forced air flow. This could be a major difference? Does anyone make solid directional rotors for the stock fox 4 lug?

Don

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

latham83 said:
are those calipers hard to install??? whats involved?? they bolt right up or what?
i dont have to mess aroudn with the back drums right..
what the hell rotors should i BUY..if powerslots are "no good"...even if i dotn get calipers..what rotor should i buy...i need some answers guys...

They bolt right up, you can even re-use your stock pads, just carefully bend the forks on the inner pad to it fits in the caliper snugly.... You will also need new copper crush washers, they are very cheap (under $2 for all 4) just ask for some when you get your calipers. The difference is very significant.

custom89stang · Feb 17, 2004

BlackFox5.0 said:
They bolt right up, you can even re-use your stock pads, just carefully bend the forks on the inner pad to it fits in the caliper snugly.... You will also need new copper crush washers, they are very cheap (under $2 for all 4) just ask for some when you get your calipers. The difference is very significant.

Okay, Matt and BlackFox5.0, I dont care how smart you think you are. But if you think that a full rotor (non-slotted/dimpled) is better because it has more surface area you are flat out wrong. Slotted/dimpled rotors are better. Unless you want to show me some actually tests Matt and BlackFox5.0 and anyone else, you HAVE to quit giving false information..

So here i go....

Why slotted/dimpled rotors are better?

1. Non Slotted/dimpled dont release as much heat, i dont care what kind of pads you have, the more heat, the worse the braking. The whole point of Slotted/dimpled is to cool the brakes.

2. You say that a Non Slotted/dimpled has more surface area for breaking and that is why they are better thats wrong to.

The holes and slots give the Brakes better grabbing ability to slow down and like they pointed out above, less mass.....

To prove my point, why do you think brake pads with dimpled/slotted rotors where out faster? You'd think since they'd have less surface area they would wear out slower, but they dont! NEWSFLASH, they grab better and wear out faster because they are better with breaking. More of the pad gets scraped off because they grab the slots/dimples better.

Also, they have less mass, which of course = better braking.

Any questions?

The only drawback is the cracking/ warping.......of the slotted rotos. In that case, send them back, the manufacturer is either a POS or the product was, get a new one!!!

custom89stang · Feb 17, 2004

So for better front braking on fox. And i mean if you wanna see a great improvement.

Do these 6 things and i promise you will not rearend anyone again. (Unless you are really dumb).

1.73mm Calipers (steel, 2 piston)
2.Slotted Rotors
3.Good brake pads (hawk?)
4.Stainless brake lines
5.New Fluid (Best there is, no cheapo brands)

Optional?
6.Caliper Bushings? Stock rubber ones are $&%#!

For the rear, convert to Disc, thats all i can say about that. 5.0rest.com sells a kit with everything (including the master cylinder) for 700$ Discs in the back are 100 times better than drums in the back.

BlackFox5.0 · Feb 17, 2004

Like Matt said, I would only use "cross drilled" rotors if they were cast with the holes during manufacturing. And the only advantage is weight savings, such as on big rotors. My 13" rotors are very heavy compared to the stock 10.8" rotors.....When holes are drilled, the structrual integreity of the rotor is weakend, making them prone to cracking and/or warping. Having non-stock replacement rotors are pointless IMO, I'm sure many brake experts will agree with me, and most have already.....

Drilled rotors are fine for street and looks, but take them out on an open track or autocrossing and they won't be as reliable as stock.

go to www.cornercarvers.com and tell them drilled or slotted rotors are better than stock, and I'll bet you'll get owned....

Read this post....

http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=355711

StreetStang37 · Feb 17, 2004

custom89stang said:
Okay, Matt and BlackFox5.0, I dont care how smart you think you are. But if you think that a full rotor (non-slotted/dimpled) is better because it has more surface area you are flat out wrong. Slotted/dimpled rotors are better. Unless you want to show me some actually tests Matt and BlackFox5.0 and anyone else, you HAVE to quit giving false information..

So here i go....

Why slotted/dimpled rotors are better?

1. Non Slotted/dimpled dont release as much heat, i dont care what kind of pads you have, the more heat, the worse the braking. The whole point of Slotted/dimpled is to cool the brakes.

2. You say that a Non Slotted/dimpled has more surface area for breaking and that is why they are better thats wrong to.

The holes and slots give the Brakes better grabbing ability to slow down and like they pointed out above, less mass.....

To prove my point, why do you think brake pads with dimpled/slotted rotors where out faster? You'd think since they'd have less surface area they would wear out slower, but they dont! NEWSFLASH, they grab better and wear out faster because they are better with breaking. More of the pad gets scraped off because they grab the slots/dimples better.

Also, they have less mass, which of course = better braking.

Any questions?

The only drawback is the cracking/ warping.......of the slotted rotos. In that case, send them back, the manufacturer is either a POS or the product was, get a new one!!!

so wheres your tests??

bapford · Feb 17, 2004

I had to try for myself, so I put the power slot rotors on my GT. With only the rotor swap, it stops a lot better. I realize it can just be the new rotor, but so far I am happy. As for warping the things, you have to break them in right, just like gears.

3spd on floor · Feb 17, 2004

The stock SOLID rotors have more mass and can absorb heat better. The best way to dissapate heat is to have more SURFACE AREA and also the vented design of the stock rotor helps cool them off.

care to elaborate on how a PLAIN rotor has a larger surface area to dissapate heat than a slotted or drilled rotor?

also, i dont think you'll be able to find many performance 'solid' rotors.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 17, 2004

gt90stang said:
Interesting......there is one more difference......the powerslot rotors are directional and have forced air cooling. The stock solid rotors are not directional and are just vented with no forced air flow. This could be a major difference? Does anyone make solid directional rotors for the stock fox 4 lug?

Don

Stock rotors ARE directional. The vanes inside the rotor run a certain way. Quality rotors would be directional however cheap parts store replacements sometimes are not directional so you can slap them on either side. It's just cheaper for the company to make one casting for each vehicle.

Keep in mind, cheap parts store rotors are just that....cheap

Mustang5L5 · Feb 17, 2004

custom89stang said:
Okay, Matt and BlackFox5.0, I dont care how smart you think you are. But if you think that a full rotor (non-slotted/dimpled) is better because it has more surface area you are flat out wrong. Slotted/dimpled rotors are better. Unless you want to show me some actually tests Matt and BlackFox5.0 and anyone else, you HAVE to quit giving false information..

True...but they are not wrong in this case.

Why slotted/dimpled rotors are better?

1. Non Slotted/dimpled dont release as much heat, i dont care what kind of pads you have, the more heat, the worse the braking. The whole point of Slotted/dimpled is to cool the brakes.!!!

How do they not release as much heat? Are they made out of a new space age metal? Heat is produced by friction. You need friction to stop. You cannot generate friction without heat. A FULL out emergency stop from 100MPH is going to generate the same amount of heat in the rotor no matter what type of rotor you are wearing.

2. You say that a Non Slotted/dimpled has more surface area for breaking and that is why they are better thats wrong to. !!!

Yes it does. Think about it. All those holes and slots...hey no brake pad touches those. You want to stop...brake pad needs to TOUCH THE ROTOR!!! You want maxiumum stopping power, get as much pad contact as possible.

Also, #2....drilling and slotting REMOVED mass from the rotor. Go back to what i said earlier about the same amount of heat being produced no matter what rotor is on the car. This heat NEEDS to go somewhere. It is absorbed into the rotor and the energy is spread to all the molecules evenly. Now, a solid rotor has more molecules to absorb this so the overall temp of the rotor stays slightly cooler. A rotor that is cooler has less of a chance of warping plus overheating brakes can lessen the ability of stopping.

Also, all solid, drilled, slotted rotors have the same internal directional venting. The air gets sucked in from the center of the rotor on the backside and pumped outward centrifigally through the vanes. This is where MOST of the cooling comes from. It's a simple centrifigal pump design that works very well.

The drilled holes are not in any spot to aid airflow. The are perpendicular to the airstream and therefor quite useless when it comes to getting anything to actually flow through them. The drilled holes are for gases to escape and there hasn't been a street pad that produces gases made in 30 years.

The holes and slots give the Brakes better grabbing ability to slow down and like they pointed out above, less mass.....!!!

Like i said...how can you grab empty air?? I'm gonna go drill holes in my flywheel because the clutch will grab harder if i do that. It's the same concept as drilled rotors isn't it? But i would be the laughingstock of stangnet if i drilled my flywheel now wouldn't I?

To prove my point, why do you think brake pads with dimpled/slotted rotors where out faster? You'd think since they'd have less surface area they would wear out slower, but they dont! NEWSFLASH, they grab better and wear out faster because they are better with breaking. More of the pad gets scraped off because they grab the slots/dimples better.

Wearing out pads means better braking? Shoot...that must mean my sis's eclipse can stop from 100MPH in 90 feet because it goes through a set of pads in 10,000 miles.

I have not seen any data showing pads wear out faster with slotted/drilled rotors. Taking someone's word for it who has these rotors doesn't mean much because there are so many variables such as driving style, etc. Until i see a real test of sort sort, this doesn't hold weight to me.

Plus it's pretty hard for the 0.5" of the pad over the drilled hole to be pressed in any more than the rest of the pad at any given time. It's going to stay flush with the surface of the rotor because the rest of the pad is pressing on it.

Anything else?

Mustang5L5 · Feb 17, 2004

3spd on floor said:
care to elaborate on how a PLAIN rotor has a larger surface area to dissapate heat than a slotted or drilled rotor?

Ok imagine this. Take a rotor...now drill some holes. Hey, you just took out mass and your "airholes" are perpendicular to the airflow that will go around the rotor. Therefore any surface area inside the drilled hole is useless.

Same deal with slotted...the slots are recessed away from the direction of airflow. Therefore they are useless for channeling air. Look at any impellar design and you will see the vanes need to channel water/air whatever from a central point. The slots on the rotor...just appear. The pad covers the slot. And as before...less mass to absorb heat.

This is why we say there is more surface area on solid rotors...think of the direction of airflow across the rotor. More metal for the faster flowing air to be in contact with.

You guys are almost making me want to take a set of rotors down to our wind tunnel and do some testing.

also, i dont think you'll be able to find many performance 'solid' rotors.

Brembo makes em.

3spd on floor · Feb 18, 2004

when you slot a rotor, the surface area of the metal is increased, correct? would this increase in surface area not aid in cooling? take 2 ice cubes out of the freezer, break one in half...which melts faster? more surface area causes faster heat transfer....

yes, the decreased mass allows heat to build up faster in the rotor, but the increased surface area provides a larger medium for that heat to escape.... and the decrease in mass is better for acceleration, as negligable as that may be.

went to the brembo site, the sell some PLAIN rotors, but no SOLIDS. solid rotors only come on crappy brake systems, like the stock rears on SN-95's. some drag cars also use thin solid rotors cause they only need to stop one time.

i'm not trying to start a fight, this is a good discussion.

93 teal terror · Feb 18, 2004

I now have an answer for your question custom89stang...Why do your pads wear faster. They wear faster because when you drill holes you decrease the surface area thus increasing the distributed load. Unfortunatly the equivelant loading is still the same no matter how many holes you drill in it. So all you are doing is making your brakes work harder for the exact same stopping power.

Mustang5L5 · Feb 18, 2004

3spd on floor said:
when you slot a rotor, the surface area of the metal is increased, correct? would this increase in surface area not aid in cooling? take 2 ice cubes out of the freezer, break one in half...which melts faster? more surface area causes faster heat transfer....

You are technically correct....

except that we are talking about surface area in relation to airflow around the rotor. The slots don't really channel any airflow at all and are recessed out of the main airstream so they don't do much for cooling. The slots are used to help channel dust from the brake pads away.

When i say slotted rotors have less surface area, i mean in the face of the airstream that will be providing most of the cooling. Thing about cooling fins on a peice of electronics. The fins do increase the surface area but if you don't hold it the correct way in relation to airflow they won't help much. Hope that makes sense

yes, the decreased mass allows heat to build up faster in the rotor, but the increased surface area provides a larger medium for that heat to escape.... and the decrease in mass is better for acceleration, as negligable as that may be.

See above for the surface area discussion.

As for the mass arguement...engineers need to find a middle ground when designing a car. Too massive a rotor and you hurt stopping ability. Too light of a rotor and you build up too much heat and will warp them like crazy. It's all about finding a middle ground that everyone can be happy with. Lets not forget that our Mustangs are mainstream production cars and the rotors are sourced from a design that is 30 years old. Not a lot of engineering went into fox brakes.

went to the brembo site, the sell some PLAIN rotors, but no SOLIDS. solid rotors only come on crappy brake systems, like the stock rears on SN-95's. some drag cars also use thin solid rotors cause they only need to stop one time.

I hope this isn't confusing anyone else. When we refer to SOLID, we really mean rotors that do not have drilled holes or slots. They still are VENTED. I can't think of any production vehicle that runs solid rotors up front. The solid type rotors are a different story like the ones on the rear of Sn95 GT's those blow ass. I wouldn't stick up for them for anything.

SOLID = no holes drilled or slots cut but still VENTED in the middle
Drilled = crossdrilled rotors
SLotted = Slotted rotors

Hope that clears up any confusion

stang&2Birds · Feb 18, 2004

Powerslots are better than the cheap cr*p you get at Autozone. Now, it "can" be hard to get a good rotor without slots or holes. SMALL slots are useful for TRACK racing in case dirt, antifreeze, oil, get on the pads from an accident on the track. I said *small* slots. Now, the sports cars have slots/holes for looks. The top engineer on the vette C6 even conceded that. But, although the slots/holes reduce braking ability, on a vette, Cobra, etc, they already have PLENTY of braking ability for 99.9999999% of the people.

Powerslot brake rotors??

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