pushrod vs modular

[BooWFO]

well, i just totaled my 94 5.0. after looking around for a new car, i came across several sn95 4.6l in my price range (around 6000). what i would like to know is, how much harder is the 4.6 to work with, its aftermarket, reliability vs the pushrod, and other general comparisons b/w the two.

Actually I think this was original question? So from my few point I addressed the build cost of what I consider a typical car. Believe me I shop around for everything I just had done plenty of 5.0's and wanted to play with the Mod motor.

However I much appericate the link I had saw it but assumed since it was quoted as a tuner kit it was like the rest and hadn't looked at it. I bow to your mighty internet knowledge oh wise sage. You know as well as I most tuner kits are just the blower and bracket. My buddy was quoted 1800 for a competle vortech s trim kit for his fox. aughhhh I see no need for us to pay more for the same stuff. Since you get hosed on exchange yes you got a good deal... heck most of the aftermarket parts on my car are used. I usually score my parts for 50-70cents on the dollar of new. Works well for all involved I can more parts for same $ spend they get $. Where as my 5.0 buddies are usually in the 25-50cent on the dollar range.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

Actually I think this was original question?

Not to split hairs here, but you commented was based around my statement of the two making 400rwhp for about the same money, not the original thread starters statement. At or beyond 400rwhp, I'm right up there with you, since after that you're on borrowed time with the Modular internals, but had I chose to go the cheapest route possible, I could have made that power with very little cost and trouble in comparison to what I actually did end up spending (about $10,000 Canadian). My old 5.0L was cheaper to build up, but only if I were to do it going the N/A route. Modulars have never been stellar power makers in N/A trim. For every guy that's able to see 300rwhp with bolt ons on their 4.6L, there's a guy who's pumping out 30-40hp more with bolt ons, with his 5.0L. But when blowers come into play, it's a whole other story.

I overlooked your comparison in your early statement about two similar kits making 350fwhp on the 5.0L and 360fwhp on a 4.6L. Tell me, when was the last time you saw a modular with a centrifugal blower make less than 350 horsepower at the rear wheels!!! With 8psi with a stock PI headed 4.6L modular is going to run circles around a 5.0L forcing 8psi through it’s stock running gear. It all comes down to which motor has better volumetric efficiency and in stock and near stock trim, the modular engines have it in spades over the earlier OHV brethren.

 

[mity2]

True and I never implied that it was complete, but all the components minus the tune are there....but if you want to compare the cost of the two, lets compare apples to apples here. I have yet to see a link to a 5.0L blower kit complete with tune for the $1,800-$1,900 price tag that you two have suggested either.

i didn't say complete kits either. i think it was 6PSI tuner kit. But then i don't have 5.0, so i didn't get into detail either

 

[Gearbanger 101]

i didn't say complete kits either. i think it was 6PSI tuner kit. But then i don't have 5.0, so i didn't get into detail either

Fair enough.

 

[BooWFO]

No gearbanger my first post in this thread was a comparison of the 2 families for the guy. Because I'm pretty darn sure not everybody is going to drop 10k into hop up's. The majority of the first parts listed were what I do consider typical bolton's you know h/c/i. Then once you have those is when most start going to the next level. From the sounds of the original he isn't up on the mods as far as parts, reliablity, and such. I believe you answered the reliablity and others I believe stated that the aftermarket was stepping up. I just would prefer for people to look at the cost of modding before buying the car.
As for with or without a tune...... well I'm pretty sure I'll need a custom one once I get FI and since MD is just like 1or 2 hours away...
350rwhp well I got a buddy his 02 makes 383 rwhp with 13lbs of boost from a intercooled procharger. 5lbs of boost should be worth more than 33rwhp I think.
As for pricing Jegs has one for the fox for less than 1900, there are some powerdyne's on ebay for 1650. And we all know there are places to get parts at better prices for items like these.
I don't want this to turn into a war. I just want people to know for the average stuff a Mod motor will cost more.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

How's $2495.00 for a grand total of 340-350fwhp N/A for your '96-'98 4.6L sound?
http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com...=1124&osCsid=41b2e8e7477f4e2cb6c67d08ca37f57a
Thats pretty much what you'd pay with new parts to take a stock 215-225hp 5.0L to that same power level, wouldn't you agree?

 

[billfisher]

age old question

here's the thing... it comes down to cubes. we are sticking blowers on these motors (4.6) to get to LS power. there is nothing in the world that keeps LS guys from doing the same. so forget blowers being the equalizers. intakes,cams,headers, etc.
so there needs to be an LS tie breaker... 302!
stroke a 302 to 347. 4" bore equals large valces just like LS.

200cc ports available for 302 just like LS.
7000 rpm intakes just like LS.
if pushrods are so "old school" or ancient technology then why does chevy 505hp LS-7 use them.
we have to stick 4 valve heads to compete with 'mild' LS mods. still short on power.
ported GT-40p heads for 347 flow killer air.
piston velocity similar to LS for 347.
400 hp is WAY cheaper for carbed 347. no blower necessary.
I shifted my 1985 model 302 to 6900 rpm for YEARS no problems no forged crank,rods.
2.02,1.60 valves fit nicely into gt-40 heads. little shrouding.
I can't go to 1.85,1.56 in this MOD, and that is getting to me.
I am tired of listening to the legendary LS owning GT's. it wasn't always that way.
FORD screwed up limiting bore spacing to aftermarket 3.7"


i will finish this after dinner.. i am glad i have a 87 mustang 302 roller motor in the shed, and a 90 351 fuelie at my disposal. by the way 351's can reach 400+ cubes REALLY cheap.

 

[Joel's98GT]

well first of all if you decide to get a 4.6l, make sure its a 99+ or if its a 96-98 it has the pi head/cam/intake swap. the 99-mid 01's have the t-45 tranny, while the mid 01's and up have the stronger t-3650 with the infamous 1-2, 2-3 grind/notchiness. 96-98gt's make around (correct me if im wrong) 215hp? while 99+ are 260hp/300ft/lbs at the crank i think.

anyway, its up to you. sometimes i wish i would have a 5.0, but i like the 4.6 too. the aftermarket has embraced the 4.6. it depends on how much modding you plan on doing. if its just basic bolt-ons, the 4.6 isnt really hard to work on. but when it comes to headswaps and cams and intakes, there arent as many options. pretty much vt or comp cams, and ported stock heads, then theres accufab, c&l, dragon intake plenums. you can still make gobs of power with a mod motor. they love being blown the mods love to rev too. they're also pretty reliable.

with the 5.0, there are a lot more options when it comes to heads, upper/lower intakes, probably more options when it comes to cams too. as far as different manufacturers anyway.

im no expert by any means, but like any car, if you want the power, you gotta be willing to spend the $$$. just do some research before you make you choice. ive had mine for 8 months and im still learning more crap about it every day.

would you like to race a non-pi car with less money invested than you have? The initial price of a 96-98 will be allot lower than a 99+. for the saved money an 02 explorer motor can be dropped in and run past a 99+.

the t-3650 is NOT stronger than the t-45, I have WAY too many friends that are on thier 2nd or 3rd t-3650. the biggest weaknes of the t-45 is shift forks, the gearbox it's self is very stout.
anyway, thanks for the misinformation.

to original poster, to many the 4.6l is actually easier to work on, it may seem a little intimidating because of it being a different type of motor and external dimensions are larger, but most of the moving parts are stored in the heads, and it has less moving parts than a 5.0

as mentioned before, you can go fast with either motor if your wallet is thick enough. the 5.0 will get you more hp because of so many used aftermarket parts available vs. a 4.6L that doesn't even have an aftermarket head yet, but dipping farther into them, if you want to go really fast, you gotta pay to play, no matter which engine you use.

 

[Gearbanger 101]

here's the thing... it comes down to cubes. we are sticking blowers on these motors (4.6) to get to LS power. there is nothing in the world that keeps LS guys from doing the same. so forget blowers being the equalizers. intakes,cams,headers, etc.
so there needs to be an LS tie breaker... 302!
stroke a 302 to 347. 4" bore equals large valces just like LS.

So, you consider blowers cheating, but stroking ok? And I'm confused....what does LS stand for?

In case you're not aware of this a blown stock 4.6L makes far more power than a blown stock 5.0L at the same boost levels. So let the OHV guys add a blower, because there's nothing the same about it. Both engines do what they do well. 5.0L's work well with major aftermarket bolt-ons and modular’s work well with forced induction. There's no trickery, that's just the nature of each motor. Now you want to add strokers into the mix? Where does it stop? Next we'll start throwing big blocks and V10's into the fray!?!?! Yeah, an OHV 302 has a far greater ability to increase it's displacement over a little 281 mod motor. That's no secret, but you're no longer comparing a 4.6L vs a 5.0L after that. At what point to you stand back and say ok, that's enough. You guys compare the cost of engine internals in the mod motors vs. that of an OHV. Yep, the mod motors are definitely more expensive (but not by much when aftermarket rotating assemblies are concerned), but so what!?! After adding a blower, then adding stroke to an OHV what are you left with.....no more than about 550hp unless you want to start splitting that fragile 302 block right down the lifter galley! Now, go sink $2,000 into a Dart block to take the additional power and watch the costs skyrocket. Suddenly we reach a point where the inexpensive mod friendly 302 isn't so inexpensive anymore. Mod motor....well....steel crank, forged internals and stock block will take you well into the 700hp up to 1,000hp range (depending on which block you've got).

We can piss and moan about this all day guys, but the fact of the matter remains that either one of these engines is going to get more and more expensive when you start adding the power. In some configurations and power levels the 5.0L is cheaper to make powerful and in other instances the favor leans towards the modular engine. If power is the only deciding factor, then one should choose their car based on how much they want to make and how they want to make it.

As far as reliability.....they're both pretty even in that respect. I've seen engines from both camps with well over 300,000km on each and still run well.

 

[billfisher]

back from dinner

i am aware of just about everything concerning windsor small blocks. stock heads are useless for 302, but the heads mentioned (gt-40p) will ruin a 4.6 2v's day.

that said...

i am back from dinner...
i am currently looking into world products aftermarket block for short modular deck height. 3.7" bore still sucks, but stroking it and getting 345 cu. in. with 3 or 4 valve heads we will finally have what it takes to deal the LS (chevrolet gen2 SB> LS1,LS2,LS7) what they have coming to them. 1.75,1.45 valves are useless for these cubes, even with the best ports. 166 stock CFM @.500 lift is unacceptable. even ported 181 CFM is useless for 350+cubes (LIVERNOIS MOTORSPORTS). 3 valves is the way for me. i am not going to spend $1100.00 for 4v cams. LS and dodge hemi's will flow 200 - 245 cfm per port. we gotta get caught up.

so... mod can be good with breathing. i just got to unlearn large bore short stroke.
429 is still the king 4.36x3.59