Question about Stronger Blocks!

94GTLaserRC · Apr 6, 2007

Is the Dart block the only step up to a stronger block from a new stock block, or is there something in between, say that is stronger than stock but less money that a Dart Block?

Also, about how much more $$ is when buying a long block to upgrade to a stronger block (dart or other for that matter)

Also Also, What is the benefit of the LEVEL 10 or LEVEL 20 blocks from DSS??

Thanks
RC

DaveB · Apr 6, 2007

Ford did offer the B50 block, though I did just check Summit and I didn't see it offered, while they still sell the R302. The B50s were rated to something like 650 fwhp. As for the price of upgrading, I've never built a racing block up, so I can't comment, though I'd imagine by the time everything is done, its around $10k, if not more. I've heard many time the upgrades from DSS are bascially useless. They just don't have the addition "meat" on them like the R302 and Dart blocks, so they're still susceptable to cracking.

blksn955.o · Apr 6, 2007

FWIW the B50/ford sportsman block has been downgraded as far as what power level its rated at...its gen believed to be not much better than a stocker really.

You could run a R302 or maybe the new boss block...

You do know there are 2 levels of Dart blocks right?

1. Dart sportsman that has 4 bolt mains (cept the front and rear mains).

2, Dart Iron eagle that has all mains with 4 bolt setups and some other stuff.

I have a DSS shortblock (306) and I like the idea of a CNC'd block as far as repeatable and good work (if setup right) goes. If you want some pics of the shortblock I have some good ones if you want me to post them up. I DO NOT however, put much weight in the 10 and 20 (even more so the 20) being any stronger. CHP is also good.

IF I was going to build a stroker I would not use a stock block (B50/ford sportsman included)...I would NOT think about adding boost on top of that stroker and a stock block, but I think thats why your asking...

I know Killer went threw a board member (ricks91gt or something) and gave good advise/work at a competitve price IIRC...maybe he will chime in since he has a Dart sportsman block.

Cobra4075 · Apr 6, 2007

another one you could go with is world's Man O War block. Personaly, I think this is a stronger block than the dart.

Green 94 5.0 · Apr 6, 2007

there is no benefit to the level 10 and 20 blocks as far as capacity to handle horsepower goes. my honest opinion was that when i ordered mine i could not justify the extra $2000 or so for an aftermarket block in a non daily driven street car, 550whp or not. the stock block is prone to cracking down the lifter valley but if you go to hardcore 5.0, there are many people getting 80-100+ hard passes at the track before the damage occurs. then again, there are also people who experience the cracking under much less strenuous conditions. my car is not a daily driver and will see MAYBE 100 miles a month (that is pushing it). of those 100 miles, most will be cruising rather than aggressive driving. that combined with the fact that the tune will be conservative and the rpm's will be kept under 6000, i am hoping for mine to last a lengthy period of time. basically, for m the peace of mind was not worth the extra money considering what the car is being used for. sorry for the rant rob, just my .02.

ProKiller · Apr 7, 2007

i did get the lvl 20 dss block. it was only 300 bucks more for the lvl 20 upgrade and if i remember right they machined and trued the surfaces more. i don't know if it was worth it or not, but i'm happy with the DSS quality. yes its still a stock block, but i couldn't justify the extra 2-3k needed to have a dart block or r302 instead. i ended up spending about 5k with dss with the other stuff i bought from them, including the balancer/flywheel, windage tray, girdle, oiling system, etc.

94GTLaserRC · Apr 7, 2007

Thanks for all the replies.

ROGER: is $2000 the next level after what you got....in other words, there is nothing in between what you got and the $2000 level??

Also, whatever "aggressive driving" you do, just cut it in half for me. Im just worried about spending all that $$ on a kit with a blower, then worry about the block cracking.

BLKSN: Yeah, that's why I was asking!!

Thanks
RC

Green 94 5.0 · Apr 7, 2007

94GTLaserRC said:
Thanks for all the replies.

ROGER: is $2000 the next level after what you got....in other words, there is nothing in between what you got and the $2000 level??

Also, whatever "aggressive driving" you do, just cut it in half for me. Im just worried about spending all that $$ on a kit with a blower, then worry about the block cracking.

BLKSN: Yeah, that's why I was asking!!

Thanks
RC

there is the b50 block but it still has the same weakness. it isnt worth the extra cash.

94GTLaserRC · Apr 7, 2007

Green 94 5.0 said:
there is the b50 block but it still has the same weakness. it isnt worth the extra cash.

Why is that block more $$ if it still has the same problems?
RC

Red1990Lx · Apr 7, 2007

What is your main goal for your car? If you are not going all out racing, a basic rebuild would suffice. A 302 block bored .030 over to make it a 306 is a good starting point. Throw in some forged probe pistons with a 58cc to a 60cc head and you would have a nice forced induction compression ratio. Something like 8:5:1 or 9:1 depending on the head. Throw a custom cam in for forced induction with like a set of AFR heads, 42lb injectors and you would be set. Run 12-15lbs of boost every day and be fine!!! That would put you in the 485-500 HP range with a moderate to aggressive tune. You could even run some meth in there to help with your heat soak and or fuel curves. This is a solid set-up, I would know!!! I currently am running it with a few variations and its an every day driver, however I still rather drive my truck and take the Stang out on nice days!!!

As far as a racing block goes, I haven't seen to many bad things about the Darts with a 4 bolt main. Just do some research into what YOU really want for yourself and not what the magizines run and praise in their ads!!!

94GTLaserRC · Apr 7, 2007

Red1990Lx said:
What is your main goal for your car? If you are not going all out racing, a basic rebuild would suffice. A 302 block bored .030 over to make it a 306 is a good starting point. Throw in some forged probe pistons with a 58cc to a 60cc head and you would have a nice forced induction compression ratio. Something like 8:5:1 or 9:1 depending on the head. Throw a custom cam in for forced induction with like a set of AFR heads, 42lb injectors and you would be set. Run 12-15lbs of boost every day and be fine!!! That would put you in the 485-500 HP range with a moderate to aggressive tune. You could even run some meth in there to help with your heat soak and or fuel curves. This is a solid set-up, I would know!!! I currently am running it with a few variations and its an every day driver, however I still rather drive my truck and take the Stang out on nice days!!!

As far as a racing block goes, I haven't seen to many bad things about the Darts with a 4 bolt main. Just do some research into what YOU really want for yourself and not what the magizines run and praise in their ads!!!

Thanks for jumping over to the "dark side". Most guys on this side know my plans...a CHP 331 with 8.x comp to compliment the Vortech. That with the AFR 185's "could" put me near 500HP. The car will NOT be a DD, and I will rarely or never take it to the track. Im just worried about being so close to the limits. Like YOU said, I would like the Meth Snow kit to keep things cool.. That will allow me to have a more aggressive tune, even though I dont need.

Im guessing my goal in tuning is 475 to keep things safe and running functionally.

Thanks again Red for the reply!!

RC

Red1990Lx · Apr 7, 2007

94GTLaserRC said:
Thanks for jumping over to the "dark side". Most guys on this side know my plans...a CHP 331 with 8.x comp to compliment the Vortech. That with the AFR 185's "could" put me near 500HP. The car will NOT be a DD, and I will rarely or never take it to the track. Im just worried about being so close to the limits. Like YOU said, I would like the Meth Snow kit to keep things cool.. That will allow me to have a more aggressive tune, even though I dont need.

Im guessing my goal in tuning is 475 to keep things safe and running functionally.

Thanks again Red for the reply!!

RC

No problem, seems like 331's are more popular now than the 306's were a few years back!!!

94GTLaserRC · Apr 8, 2007

Red1990Lx said:
No problem, seems like 331's are more popular now than the 306's were a few years back!!!

MAIN reason is you're getting 25 more cubes for the same amount of money. It's barely more for a 331 than a 306, and the 331/347 are the SAME price. N/A guys go with the 347 and forced induction guys are going w/ low comp 331's. The only way I would get a 306 is if I were saving a bunch of money, or someone was getting rid of one cheap to upgrade.

Thanks
RC

poneypower89 · Apr 8, 2007

Surprised no one has brought up the Mexican Block.

Its definitely a step-up from the 5.0l stocker. And a HECK of a lot cheaper than a dart for sure.

blksn955.o · Apr 8, 2007

For me and price it came down to this.

306 would work with my existing H/C/I combo as far as what that H/C/I size wise would perf. best at.

a 331 or 347 would not get me much more power with the H/C/I I had, it would run better but not much.

With a 331/347 I would really be looking at a WHOLE diff. H/C/I setup and that was just not going to be possible. Plus I would 100% never do a stroker with a stock block...after seeing first hand what "waiting for the other shoe to drop" and "living on barrowd' time" got you, its just not worth it to me to worry as one buddies 347 split the block just pulling onto the hwy driving it normaly.

So in the end the added expense of the H/C/I that would work hands down better, and the fact I was not going to be able to afford a dart based block...and on a college students budget pointed me in the 306 direction. I could have a 331 with a combo that fit a 306 better and make alittle more power but not matched well or just up the shot size on the n2o and have that 306 running close to what the 331 would.

94GTLaserRC · Apr 8, 2007

blksn955.o said:
For me and price it came down to this.

306 would work with my existing H/C/I combo as far as what that H/C/I size wise would perf. best at.

a 331 or 347 would not get me much more power with the H/C/I I had, it would run better but not much.

With a 331/347 I would really be looking at a WHOLE diff. H/C/I setup and that was just not going to be possible. Plus I would 100% never do a stroker with a stock block...after seeing first hand what "waiting for the other shoe to drop" and "living on barrowd' time" got you, its just not worth it to me to worry as one buddies 347 split the block just pulling onto the hwy driving it normaly.

So in the end the added expense of the H/C/I that would work hands down better, and the fact I was not going to be able to afford a dart based block...and on a college students budget pointed me in the 306 direction. I could have a 331 with a combo that fit a 306 better and make alittle more power but not matched well or just up the shot size on the n2o and have that 306 running close to what the 331 would.

Good Point, but I think the incident you referred to was probably a freak thing. By the time Im ready, I will have seen how well Roger is doing with his, but I think I will be ok.

What is a "Mexican block"

RC

poneypower89 · Apr 8, 2007

94GTLaserRC said:
What is a "Mexican block"

RC

A mexican block is a ford cast block that was produced in the 70's and manufactured in Mexico.

It has much larger main caps than the 5.0l block as well as much more metal in the webbing area. All in all, they are known to handle applications of 800+ horsepower.

They are a GREAT alternative to dumping 2gs on an aftermarket block as I have never personally seen a mexican block split before either.

5spd GT · Apr 8, 2007

Where can you get a mexican block? Scrap yards? What vehicles may have them?

If I were to build a budget stroker (no boost/nitrous) I would go with a stock block.

A b50 block would be better for a stroker (no boost/nitrous) for piece of mind. I promise it holds more power...

99FiveOh · Apr 8, 2007

I believe RC's next question will be "How do I find a mexican block?" I know because I'm asking too!

94GTLaserRC · Apr 8, 2007

The_Mustang said:
I believe RC's next question will be "How do I find a mexican block?" I know because I'm asking too!

WRONG...You already asked it.

BESIDES, I will be buying the complete LONG BLOCK from CHP, so I will just be ordering whatever THEY can provide me.

Thanks
RC

Question about Stronger Blocks!

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