question about timing

chadjones99 · Sep 5, 2006

i put in my distributor, and the car feels a little week, and a mid power miss or flutter.. anyway my question is can i be 180 out on the install of my distributor and if so would it still run ok..i forgot to check to see if i was on my compression stroke when i did this
thanks

R2D2 · Sep 5, 2006

180 out it wont run

blkcobra50 · Sep 5, 2006

chadjones99 said:
i put in my distributor, and the car feels a little week, and a mid power miss or flutter.. anyway my question is can i be 180 out on the install of my distributor and if so would it still run ok..i forgot to check to see if i was on my compression stroke when i did this
thanks

If you were 180 out the car would not run. Is the rotor pointing to the #1 when you are at TDC on compression stroke?

cj99 · Sep 5, 2006

yes. it is and it runs ok. just need to dial it in and work out the bugs.. its been down for 8 months and jusst dropped in a fresh rebuild 302... so it has a real mild mis and 2100 RPMs but i cant feel it if i hammer down. i only have 26 miles on motor right now. so the weak feeling may just be the motor is still real tight. but it does have something not right feeling to it.
i did find a wire under the car that is broke and i can find were it goes. it is green with a black stripe. i thought maybe it went to one of the O2 sensors but when i put a heat gun , on it to check temps both banks are about the same temp 430 deg at idle , so its not running lean.( i was worried that one of the O2 , was not working and it would lean out one side of the motor.) but that seems fine.

HISSIN50 · Sep 5, 2006

Yes, for the record it can run while 180 out of phase. Not well, but it can run.

If you broke an O2 wire, it should run in FMEM and it will run well but a hair rich. So I wouldnt infer much for the bank temps.

Do you have two accounts or are two different people posting?

Good luck.

JChalfan · Sep 5, 2006

I think both accounts are him. Forgot password maybe?

Since it's clear you are not 180 off, is your timing set correctly? Did you remove your spout when you set the timing? Factory is 10*, lots of guys run around 14* with 93 octane gas.

Jeff

cj99 · Sep 5, 2006

JChalfan said:
I think both accounts are him. Forgot password maybe?

Since it's clear you are not 180 off, is your timing set correctly? Did you remove your spout when you set the timing? Factory is 10*, lots of guys run around 14* with 93 octane gas.

Jeff

ok, thanks... what spout are you taking about ?
and i do not remember having 2 accounts...maybe i set up one in the past but have been posting only on this one. now i have been asking same question on another website..(moddedmustangs )
i fount part of my problem i had set the fuel pressure with the vac line hooked up, so i took it off and it was like 42, moved it down to 38 and it helped alot.i hhave time set by ear. i can see the timing marks but cant read them.just lines...i got to looking at the wiring diagram and it does look like the broke wire is a ground for my O2 sensor. because of the exhaust temp i took are pretty close on both banks i think there both working...maybe it using the ground through the exhaust connection?

cj99 · Sep 5, 2006

HISSIN50 said:
Yes, for the record it can run while 180 out of phase. Not well, but it can run.

If you broke an O2 wire, it should run in FMEM and it will run well but a hair rich. So I wouldnt infer much for the bank temps.

Do you have two accounts or are two different people posting?

Good luck.

what is FMEM ?

cj99 · Sep 5, 2006

i do have 2 post going , one for the wire and one for the timing issue. i do see 2 diff names cj99 and chadjones99 and yes both me. i guess i have the same password for both and some how logged on to one post ? i dont know...but yes both me

HISSIN50 · Sep 5, 2006

FMEM = Failure Mode Effects Management. WHen a sensor is seen totally out of whack, the puter substitutes a value for the sensor so the car runs ok. It will keep an eye on the sensor and if the sensor gets back within absolute calibration specs, it can try to use the sensor again.

cj99 · Sep 6, 2006

cool, did not think mids 80's car computers were up to that

TheUser · Sep 6, 2006

I would suggest getting a timing light on it. I've timed mine by ear briefly to get it started and it sounded alright...put the light on it and it's way off. A light will take the guesswork out of it as long as everything else is done properly.

I paid like $50 or so for the Summit timing light w/ the dial on the back; I never use the dial, so maybe I could have gotten away w/ getting a cheaper one, but I like mine. It's been well worth the $50.

JChalfan · Sep 6, 2006

cj99 said:
ok, thanks... what spout are you taking about

i hhave time set by ear. i can see the timing marks but cant read them.just lines...

The "spout" is a little grey block plugged into a socket. It should be very near the distributor, coming off of the distributor wiring harness. You must remove it before you set the timing. You can just pull it out while the engine is running.

Get under your car and clean off the balancer at least enough to mark TDC and 10* on the balancer. Then get a timing light and set the timing to 10*. You can go as high as 14* if you don't hear any pinging with premium gas.

Jeff

cj99 · Sep 7, 2006

timing and fuel question

ok, i set my fuel to 38 lbs like my last post say's...its running better but when i dont have my foot in it and am just trying to cruise.. it feels like it has a small mis...so i have too issue's i checked fuel pressure again. here is whats going on..when i have the vac line on and the car is at idle (800-950 rpm's) it show 30-31lbs wheni rev it it spikes to 35 then drops to 25 and floats betteen 24-26 lbs. does that sound right ? vac line off it set at 38 lbs at idle. , i also have the vac line hooked right behind intake ..is it getting to much vac ? should i move vac line to vac header ?>
i am also playing with the timing. another issue there.. when i pull the plug (chip) to set the timing nothing happens. i thought the idle would change...its like the dam thing is not hooked up or something?
timimg i know should be 10-14 with chip pulled but i have it like 30-40 because the chip is not doing anything, car run pretty good, just that little bit of mis when i am not puring the gas too it. is there some were i can jumpper that wire the chip goes to to make it work ?
i think the spout (chip)problem must be the root of my problems at this point
thanks

HISSIN50 · Sep 7, 2006

You fuel pressure should not stay below 30 PSIG. That's an issue. The fuel filter would be something to check (as a restriction).

Good luck.

JChalfan · Sep 8, 2006

HISSIN50 said:
You fuel pressure should not stay below 30 PSIG. That's an issue. The fuel filter would be something to check (as a restriction).

Good luck.

Someone recently had similar fuel pressure problems, and it turned out the filter had been installed backwards. Either way, I'd replace the filter.

As far as your timing issue goes, you need to figure out what's going on there. The spout is nothing but a jumper. With the spout in, the computer has control over the ignition timing. When the spout is removed, the timing is locked it wherever it is set as base timing.

You could try jumpering the spout wires to check and see if the spout peice itself is defective.

Otherwise, I'd start a new thread looking for help with the ignition problem, I'm sure someone here has the answer.

Jeff

cj99 · Sep 8, 2006

ok thanks. the car sat for about 9 months while motor was out being rebuild ,etc...so the tank was drained but it could have gotten rusty and the new gas put in it may have plugged the filter..now for the timing. i did jumper the spout nothing happened , also i put a test light on the wire going to the spout.. its dead. i would think it would have up to 12 volts on it so test light should have lite up some ? right can some go test there and give me a voltage. so i can put that on the wire to test to make sure the dist is moving the timing. mean while i may have a broke wire . i am guessing this wire goes all the way back to the computer , so i may have run a new one. its yellow at the spout. do you know if it will be the only yellow wire coming off of the computer ?
thanks for your help i will repost this later as a new tread if i dont get a good answer
once again thanks for your time and help.

HISSIN50 · Sep 8, 2006

cj99 said:
also i put a test light on the wire going to the spout.. its dead. i would think it would have up to 12 volts on it so test light should have lite up some....

I think I recall one of the SPOUT-connector wires spec'ing out at 30-60% of battery voltage, but can't remember which (I once looked it up for someone who PM'd me). It looks like Terminal 5 on about any flavor of TFI should show SPOUT voltage.
Good luck.

cj99 · Sep 9, 2006

thanks for your help so far

HISSIN50 said:
I think I recall one of the SPOUT-connector wires spec'ing out at 30-60% of battery voltage, but can't remember which (I once looked it up for someone who PM'd me). It looks like Terminal 5 on about any flavor of TFI should show SPOUT voltage.
Good luck.

what do you mean terminal 5 ? i did look at wire diagram have not found voltage..but did find wire. i traced it back to the EEC and tested it. wire is good not broke so it ether the EEC or the distubtor ? i had a extra computer i tryed but it will not start the car ? but i do see the # dont really match on the other eec. here they are............Mustang computer
BAD= EEC-IV EFI sd20a
E8tf-12a650-as2c g 8RB
GOOD=
EEC-IV SFI-MA12A
F3zf-12a650-eb D3D1

i put a test lite on wire right after eec and nothing?

cj99 · Sep 9, 2006

now i also had the distubtor rebuilt ...so i wonder if thats the problem.. only thing i would thank that the eec still would be putting out something if that were the case ??

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