Questions about putting a 4.6 into a 1966

[Mr.Smith]

Okay I started building a 6 cylinder 66 for my son's first car but he lost interest so I am changing things up. I am now putting a 4.6 out of a 1995 Lincoln Mark VIII. Yesterday I found a guy that sold me a supercharger and heads from a 2003 cobra. I am just looking for pointers on what I need to do to put this all together. Before this motor I bought a wrecked 1997 GT with a 5 spd that I was going to put in it but then decided after some research that motor wasn't the best choice.
Will the 5spd hold up okay with my new setup?
Will I have to raise the tunnel?
What are people using for a heater motor sense the stock motor sticks out past the firewall?
Will the computer for the Mark VIII run the supercharger?
I am sure I will have more questions as time goes on but that is a good start.

 

[rbohm]

first thing is you are going to have to cut out the shock towers and replace the front suspension, especially if you are building a 65-66 car. the 67-ups can squeeze the single came 4.6 in the engine bay, its tight like putting in a 390 or 460, but doable. if you want the dual cam 4.6 then you still need to cut out the shock towers.

depending on the trans you use, you will have to make a new trans tunnel, so be prepared for that.

you may need to run a hydroboost setup if you want power brakes, the vacuum booster will hit the valve covers.

the five speed you have should do fine behind even the supercharged motor, if kept stock. start modding the motor and step up to a tremec tko.

the supercharger is belt driven, but the computer may have issues with getting the fuel mixture right. but holley has a solution to that with a stand alone EFI system;

Terminator X and Terminator X Max. Two powertrain management systems from Holley that offer plug and play control for most domestic V8 engines starting at just $999.

Holley EFI Terminator X

www.holley.com

 

[Mr.Smith]

Thanks for the link rbohm. I have already put in a mustang II ifs.

 

[Mr.Smith]

I just spoke with Holley. They don't have that terminator setup for the mod motors yet. They do have something that is twice the price. They may be comeing out with something soon in the terminator line. I guess the Ford line has only been out for a couple weeks.

 

[wicked93gs]

As far as standalones go...you are better off buying a Megasquirt than a Holley...it will run the 4.6L easily regardless of mods...you can even get a plug and play version in a Ford case...however, you will still need to tune it for your setup....but all real standalones require tuning. Wiring for MS is dead easy though. The T45 transmission is not known for strength...a terminator setup will likely destroy it eventually. You are far better off with a T56 6 speed....which CAN fit a stock tunnel with only trimming of the transmission crossmember where it crosses the tunnel at the top(a T45 will fit without any tunnel mods). I never ran heat or AC in my 4.6 swap...no clue what others do

 

[Mr.Smith]

Okay I have decide to simplify things a bit. I am going to put a 1996 Cobra intake on the Mark VIII motor and use the Ron Francis Detail Zone harness. Anyone need a supercharger?

 

[Cool Beans]

I bought a complete 1998 Cobra parts car and I "wire-dieted" the oem harness myself. I had the computer flashed to turn off PATS, IMRC, EGR stuff, bumped CR a tad when I rebuilt the engine. I should probably start a build thread now that I have a ton of progress pictures....

I ran it last weekend for the first time, started right up when the fuel system finally primed and idled great. I was giddy! Everything is in mock-up, haven't finalized any wire run locations yet. If you have any questions, I may be able to help.

 

[Mr.Smith]

I bought a complete 1998 Cobra parts car and I "wire-dieted" the oem harness myself. I had the computer flashed to turn off PATS, IMRC, EGR stuff, bumped CR a tad when I rebuilt the engine. I should probably start a build thread now that I have a ton of progress pictures....

I ran it last weekend for the first time, started right up when the fuel system finally primed and idled great. I was giddy! Everything is in mock-up, haven't finalized any wire run locations yet. If you have any questions, I may be able to help.

Well Cool Beans I am a little intimidated with the thought of doing the harness diet but I wouldn't mind save a grand. Do you have a schematic that shows what needs to be done? What are you going to use for a heater? How did you run your fuel lines? I knew the cars got wider after 66 but I didn't realize they were that much wider. Did you have to do anything with the location of the oil filter.

 

[Cool Beans]

Ha, yes! I wasn't feeling all that confident cutting up the harness and thought about Ron or complete standalone by Pro-M...I decided I had nothing to lose by cutting up the harness and trying in lieu of dropping $1000-$3500

No, I don't have nor do I know of any wiring diagram of what needs to be done. Once the project is done next year, I will write it all down and release it to the internet. So far, it has been intuition and just being able to trace wires. It has been pretty easy because every sensor has it's own signal wire to the computer. So if you decide you don't need the EGR system, you can de-pin the wires going to the EGR sensors from the computer plug and then just snip the power and ground wires. It's not as hard as it looks. You will need a tune though. A few helpful links (1998 Cobra specific):

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www.fuelinjectedford.com

= Mod Motor Wiring Diagrams / Schematics =

[img] Cobra PCM Pin out [img][/QUOTE]

www.theturboforums.com

I'm replacing the HVAC with a unit like this in the future: https://www.restomodair.com/shopproducts/vapir-ii-compact-custom-air-conditioning-system/
It just seems easier then trying to keep the OEM setup, and trying to keep it original...it's probably cheaper!

I used a Hyper-Fuel conversion kit. I used 2 AN6 PTFE fuel line kits from EvilEnergy on Amazon for the supply and return lines. Use
Russell 640900 & Russell 640870 fittings (6AN, 8AN is different) to connect the fuel lines to the OEM ford fuel rails. Right now the lines are just hung under the car.

I relocated the oil filter to the driverside fender with a kit from Maximum Motor Sports. I needed to order an additional 2 - 90 Push-Lock fittings. This is because I have the OEM cooler in place. Stock, you might be able to use a stock filter.

I used an AJE K-member conversion kit for my swap. I kind of wish I went MII but it is what it is. I have tons of room after trimming the towers. I wish people wouldn't comment on this engine swap that haven't done it

I will probably start a build thread tomorrow or Monday and start loading pics. If you have any questions, holla!

 

[Mr.Smith]

Thanks CB that is a lot of info. I looked at that link for the AC unit and was excited at the price until I realized that was only part of what is needed. The complete kit is $2000. vintage air and Nostalgic air have kits for $1500. When I have time I am going to ask them if I can use the factory compressor and maybe get a discount. They will probably say it would void the warranty.
Does anyone have a list of the items that can be deleted from the harness? I don't mind doing the work but I am not a mechanic and have no idea what will effect how the car runs other than the ignition and fuel injection.
I don't know how I missed the trim work you did on the towers.
When you get your post going please post a link here.
Are you going to use factory gauges or after market? If factory how will you run your speedometer?
Yeah there are a lot of choices when you start looking into the front suspension with some pretty large price tags. I went with a mustang II kit that was a knock off of Heidts. Works well enough and for $1200 I am happy.
I had no idea you could get a kit to retrofit the existing tank. I got my tank and pump setup from Tanks inc. Haven't got the fuel lines yet. Thanks for the info on those.

 

[Cool Beans]

You're welcome. The tower comment wasn't directed at you, hope you didn't take it that way.

I was under the impression I could use my 4.6 compressor with that kit. I need to look into it more, but I still think it's a better deal if it helps everything fit and go together easier.

For the sensors, what you can remove depends on what your build is like. For example, I removed the EGR. That basically means I traced every EGR related sensors plug wires back to it's origins and snipped or depinned the wires. IMRC delete, same procedure. Rear O2 delete, same thing. I then had a tuner burn me a tune turning these off. I will get this tuned on a dyno when it's finished. It's not hard, just confusing since Ford kind of ran everything together in several individual harnesses that are then tied together at different points. If you are patient, I can mark up a pin-out of what I removed to this point...maybe this weekend. I still have things I can remove. *Disclaimer* I'm keeping everything I removed in a box, just in case, lol.

My FB album is public. The pics should keep you busy for a couple days, lol. I have a test tuesday I'm studying for, so no build thread before then.

I'll probably be going with speed hut gauges. I honestly haven't thought about it. There are so many other things going with this build

 

[Mr.Smith]

I want to remove everything that I can. I am not sure if your schematic will be the same since I have the Mark Vii motor but thanks for the offer. I ordered a set of the plastic IMRC's from ebay and will be doing the JB weld plug on those. The Mark VII's are vacuum operated. I don't know if they have some sensor to detect if they are working or not.

You may be able to use your compressor for that AC system but I think you would still have to get their condenser, accumulator and a few other things so after that you may as well buy the whole kit. I could be wrong on that so let me know what you find out.

Where did you get your motor mounts? Did they come with your AJE kit. And know I didn't think your comment was directed at me. I actually couldn't figure out who it was directed at so I didn't give it much thought. lol

Do you have a link to your FB page?

 

[Cool Beans]

Do you have a link to your FB page?

Woops, I guess this would be be helpful to actually post, hehe:

https://www.facebook.com/steven.minnichii/media_set?set=a.10214271010551374&type=3

The comment was more so my exasperation of the number of comments on many forums that say the towers must be removed 'cause reasons...or that they read on another forum they have to be removed...or they show that one picture of a 4.6 next to a 302 and say "see?!"....

Hmmm, I know nothing about the Mark VII. If it's old enough to be EEC-IV, your job might be easier since you shouldn't have PATS to deal with, and some things are still vacuum operated.

AJE supplied the mounts. They are plate and mount with a bolt through a poly bushing.

 

[Mr.Smith]

How did your modification of your brake lever turn out? I forgot to pull the bracket for the brake pedal off the car I got the hydroboost from. It would be nice to be able to extend the shaft that goes into the cylinder but I don't see a way to get it out without causing damage. Did you change your steering column?

 

[Mr.Smith]

I thought I would post some pics of my project so far. When I got the car restoration had been started from someone who had no right to restore a car. It had been painted years ago and then put into his garage and left alone. He put a lot of money into new parts but his ability to do body work was not any better than a 16 year old kid. The left quarter panel had been replaced but he did not do anything to fix the rust in the wheel well so I had to remove the quarter panel and repair the wheel well and while I was at it I found he had taken a few pieces of metal and duct tape to cover up rust in rust holes in the trunk area. So that led me to strip down the car and start over. Of course I found a long list of surprises to fix in doing so. Fast forward to a year and a half later and many different directions of my build and this is what I have.

 

[Mr.Smith]

The motor was a bit tight to the fire wall and left no room for the heater hoses so I am in the middle of changing that up now. I am going with a vintage air system because they are the only one that I have found that has a complete kit that I can use the original compressor and can rout the heat and cooling lines where I need them to be.

 

[wicked93gs]

I am not actually positive that the towers need to be removed at all. When I did my swap, I went MII...but in retrospect the engine could possibly fit between stock shock towers(If you have a 66, you might possibly need to graft in 67+ towers, which can be done fairly easily). Most people that do the swap notch the shock towers and use a McPherson strut type suspension(not ideal, but not a bad choice)...but I think it might be possible to squeeze a 4.6L DOHC in there with full towers if you are very tight with your exhaust and willing to fabricate your own headers.(I know it can be done with a Coyote 5.0L)

As far as hydroboost....in these old mustangs, power assist, whether vacuum or hydraulic isn't even really needed...manual brakes stop the car just as well...true, the pedal effort is higher...but that doesn't affect actual stopping distance. Its the same as a cable clutch vs hydraulic...the hydraulic clutch just makes it easier to disengage the pressure plate...it isn't actually technically better. Hydraulic assist is just a quality of life modification.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Yeah I know that they stop fine with a regular master cylinder but with all the other work I am doing I may as well make them power brakes.

I already have the mustang II in as well. Everything I read said the 66 had to have the towers removed to make room but like anything else there is a lot of misinformation online so who knows.

 

[wicked93gs]

Woops, I guess this would be be helpful to actually post, hehe:

https://www.facebook.com/steven.minnichii/media_set?set=a.10214271010551374&type=3

The comment was more so my exasperation of the number of comments on many forums that say the towers must be removed 'cause reasons...or that they read on another forum they have to be removed...or they show that one picture of a 4.6 next to a 302 and say "see?!"....

Hmmm, I know nothing about the Mark VII. If it's old enough to be EEC-IV, your job might be easier since you shouldn't have PATS to deal with, and some things are still vacuum operated.

AJE supplied the mounts. They are plate and mount with a bolt through a poly bushing.

Yeah I know that they stop fine with a regular master cylinder but with all the other work I am doing I may as well make them power brakes.

I already have the mustang II in as well. Everything I read said the 66 had to have the towers removed to make room but like anything else there is a lot of misinformation online so who knows.

On my 4.6L swap i used a MII as well as I said.....but these days the biggest advantage of a MII front end is that you get rack&pinion steering, tubular control arms, coilovers(optionally) and front disc brakes for a ridiculously low cost....the other advantage is that you get rid of the drag link, making a rear sump setup so much easier, and its far easier to lower the engine....it really is best option for swaps. For example....this time around I chose to retain the stock shock towers and decided to swap in a 2012 Mustang 3.7L v6(same HP as the 4.6L at 270lbs total weight):

It fits...but I constantly find myself wishing I had a MII front end for the extra room(headers were a PITA to fab, I could have gotten the engine lower and further back with a MII, wouldnt have a big steering box in my way, etc. I chose to stick with the shock towers because in the end the stock-style suspension has more negative camber gain than a MII suspension...which means better handling in these old cars. The MII is fine...but I have heard reports of the UCA bolts slipping at bad times, throwing off alignment....and THAT particular trait is what decided me against it this time...some type of modification needs to be made to prevent those bolts slipping once its aligned, and I never could quite figure how to go about it and retain the needed adjustability.

 

[Cool Beans]

Man, I've been off the radar for too long, lol. I haven't had a chance to get that build thread started...but as you can see, the K-member conversion lets all of the stock suspension and steering go and allows me to use stock SN95 and Fox parts.