R12 freeon or R134??

glowstang93 said:

About a month ago I got a $200 estimate to convert to 134a and that was counting an accumulator. So if you don't need that about $150. Course it all depends on what your mechanic charges or what you can do yourself. Don't waist your time with R12, I didn't even know you could still buy it or if so, its very expensive.

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yea you can still buy it but only if your EPA certified. theres a good reaplacement for R12 which goes by hte name of Hot Shot.

Here's what I know.

1.) You need an EPA 609 license to legally purchase ANY refrigerant other than R134 a.

2.) The EPA 609 certification is an open book test that you take online, the cost is about $20. You can download the study guide for free. You can use the study guide while you take the test: the rules state this is OK. See http://www.epatest.com/609/openbook/ and http://www.epatest.com/609/openbook/. Guess what? If you get the PDF doc study guide, PDF documents are searchable using the search feature. So if you can read, the test is very simple. I still have a copy of the study guide in PDF format that I am willing to share for free.

3.) There are subsitutes for R12 that are not expensive, but you still need the EPA 609 certification to purchase them. Some are blends which require special considerations when recharging the system. At least one of the subistutes, R12a, is a highly flammable blend of propane and butane.

4.) R12 is still available in 12 oz cans IF you have a EPA 609 license and are willing to pay $70 a can for it. The 5.0 Mustangs take 3 cans, so that is $210 just for the R12. As always check Ebay. There are people claiming to have R12 available in 12 oz for less than the $70 a can price. As with any Ebay item, buyer beware.

The tools & procedures for conversion or recharge are described at http://bellsouthpwp.net/l/r/lrichker...conversion.htm. The process described is for R134 conversion, but you can skip all the flushing and purging if you use R12.

4. More information on A/C repair is available at http://www.autofrost.com/ and a google search, http://www.google.com/search?q=R12+r...x=&startPage=1

If you choose to get a R12 replacement instead of a R134A conversion, check the contents, most of that stuff is just liquid propane :O. Personally, I wouldn't want that stuff hanging on the front of the car.

I heard that R12 gets colder than R 134a. My system in my 91 Chevy was all leaked out and i put R 134a in in it and it worked great all I had to buy were diffrent fittings. My dad does some weird thing when he recharges systems were he puts the can in a cup of cold or hot water one of the 2.

The cup of hot water keeps it from freezing when you unleash it.

I had mine fitted up with R134 not long after I bought it about 5 years ago. It blows cold but not near as cold as it did with R12. If you like A/C, swapping is worth it. Around my area, R12 is hard to come by, so I didn't have much of a choice. I'm glad I did it.

As I recall, the main thing is to get all of the old crap out of your R12 system (using a chemical flush helps), replace the accumulator and orifice tube (they get plugged up full of gunk over time), evacuate the system (AKA "pumping it down" - you can rent the pump from Autozone), and THEN start adding your 134a. It's really not all that expensive in the long run, compared to sticking with R12. As stated, R134a doesn't cool as effectively as old R12, but for the cost, it's good enough for most folks.

Besides, if you have a leak anywhere in the system, it won't matter what you put in there, it'll drain out in about the same amount of time - the difference being that it'll cost you a buttload more to put R12 back in there AGAIN, versus just fixing the leak, running to Wal-Mart or wherever, and grabbing a couple of cans of R-134a. You could refill with an R12 substitute like Freeze-12 or whatever, but again, those are usually just flammable materials like propane and such - not a problem unless you have a pretty decent-sized leak going and you store your car in a garage or some other place where those heavier-than-air gasses can pool up and be ignited.

OR ... you can spend about $40 on a new bracket and just delete about 20 lbs. of dead weight from the front-end of your car.

I just performed the R134 conversion on my '86. I bought the conversion kit for about $40 and installed it myself (not difficult.....a couple fittings and some seals). Then I had a shop charge it for another $40. Like others have said, it does not blow as cold as R12, but it works well, at cooling the air on a hot day.

Mike

134a conversion is worth it. From my experience the new crap that isn't r12 but works in a r12 system is crap. 134a isn't too hard of a swap to do, and you get cheap refrigerant.

I swapped my GT to R134 several years ago using a retrofit kit from Napa. Works great and blows cold air. About 40 bones and I was good to go.

Changing the orifice tube and accumulator when restoring an A/C system should be considered, regardless of whether you're using R-12 or R-134a - again, they tend to accumulate gunk, and if you go throwing the thing together with all that crap still hanging around in there, you can easily wind up with another A/C system failure for one or more reasons (compressor failure, leaks, blown seals, etc.). It'd be like changing the oil in your motor and leaving the old filter in place.

mattkimsey said:

So is this all I need to convert to R134?

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If you have a healthy A/C system in the car now, yes. I was a little concerned when they charged mine because the previous owner said it had not worked in years. Luckly, my system had no leaks after the conversion and did very well on the vacuum check and other procedures they perform when charging the system.

Edit: I bought my R134 conversion kit from Napa Autoparts.

Mike