Randall rack install...

Isn't that what we're here for?

i would definately find that as good information, as im planning to upgrade to power steering. I just replaced all the front end components and had my steering box rebuilt and it handles like a different vehicle. I dont mind the manual steering but wonder what power would be like on the old girl

Yep, there will be tons of interest.

I have guys photo chopping my car to see if I like it with stripes, scoops, wheels etc. I always try to get other peoples input on projects I have not tried myself unless it is basic stuff.

Collective knowlege is important with this hobby.

I am interested as well, I am still contemplating this. I have so much crap going in new and not original I am wondering what will work together though. 67, 351w, hydraulic clutch, power disc's on all four corners, tremec, etc. Wondering how a new power rack would fit and which one would work best.

Just getting ready to install mine

I just received my kit yesterday.
The quality of Randalls rack is very good. A mechanically inclined individual should have no problem with the instructions.
I don't expect to be on the road much before Christmas, with everything I'm doing.

Look forward to hearing how your install goes.

BTW: you will need to add in the cost of late model Mustang inner tie rod ends to the price, as well as manual steer 65-66 outer tie rod ends (if you don't have them). In my case it added roughy $225.00, but I didn't shop around.

Scott

First quality, second made in the USA.

It's a personal thing for me.

When you put 20K into updates/upgrades, what's $200.00 when you get quality made in the good old U.S. of A. parts.

And no, I don't use those cheap rebuild kits. But again, it's a personal thing.

Scott

Tim65GT said:

Isn't that what we're here for?

Click to expand...

Thats the idea information exchange!!
I was waiting for Mavalgear to come out with theirs, so far they only build a manual Mustang rack.

I'm glad you're documenting this. Don't worry about the funds. If it makes you feel better, I've had my car for 18 years and it's still not on the road. Through most of the years funds was the problem, now it's time.
Keep posting, and improve the lighting on those pics!!!

dbfar, you're obviously well invested in this project (I don't mean monetarily, though that may be the case too). You've hit on many of the usual problematic areas that most encounter on the OEM ps setup. I'm glad you're taking the time to share your insight and experience, as well as your Randall's Rack conversion. I'll be watching this thread.

I'd also like to say that I still think there is potential for making the original system a good performing system with reasonable feedback. I'm actually pursuing this course myself right now. I spent 7 years daily driving my Mach and making improvements along the way. From that experience, I did find there were some things that made signficant differences in the steering's response and feel. These include rebuilding the control valve and ram (with good results), proper steering gear load adjustment, proper valve adjustment, the use of poly bushings in both the suspension and steering system, and different tire profiles and specs. The combination of these things provided immediate improvement, including improved stability and direction control, improved response to only 1.5" of radial steering wheel play (on a 14" steering wheel) before tire movement (which really isn't very much), and increased roadfeel through the wheel significantly. In the recent build of the system, I've furthered my efforts with more use of poly bushings in the steering system and investigation of idler arm designs, bumpsteer reduction, improved ratio add-ons, and pressure modulation. I hope to share my experience with those over the next year.

Now, all of that said, I'm not sure I'll see the kind of feel and response improvements a rack&pinion conversion might provide. In fact, I'm not sure if I'll even see a cost benefit comparitively (though that is what I'm hoping since I'm a broke doctoral student with a one year old). But, some of my concerns extend beyond these issues. For example, being that I intend for my car to be a daily drive (and my sole car at that), I have interest in being able to get repair parts locally and at reasonable costs, and even on a Sunday afternoon from a local parts store if I need. Also, I continue to have reservations about the potential of losing turning radius since parking and manuevering on the street and in parking lots is a challenge here in Seattle.

Anyway, I'm hoping you'll add a couple of things to your list while doing your conversion since no one seems to have investigated or attempted to deal with these in forethought. I think these would be extremely informative for others considering the conversion (including me eventually):

1. Measure turning radius before and after conversion, definitively.

2. Cost and convenient sources of replacement parts, including the rack itself (since I've had to replace racks on cars with less than 50k miles).

3. Measure of radial steering wheel play (giving the steering wheel diameter) before and after conversion.

4. Any permanent modifications of any component on the car (including steering column or shafts).

5. Tools necessary for the conversion, including any cutting or welding tools you use.

6. And ultimately, some kind of measured performance improvement (i.e. track or autocross times).

That is the kinda stuff that gets lost in the hype of all these conversions. We all talk about wanting more feel, response, stability, and performance, but is this conversion compromising one aspect for another, or does it truly provide improvement across the range? That would help me feel more informed!

I'll look forward to your future posts.

EDIT: Damn. I left out a couple spaces and commas. Sometimes I just type too fast for my own good.

Every Mustang I've owned came with factory power steering, and I hated every one of them regarding the total lack of road feel. I had much the same results as DB here; some good springs, new arms with bushings and ball-joints, 4 gas shocks, then some liberal use of poly and they do waken up a bit. I always went one step further by cutting the fan belt to the pump. The effort required was only considerable in a parking lot and as long as the driver is reasonably physical I don;t see any issues with it. I have put a TCP rack in mine but she's still a long way from the road so I cannot contribute any experience other than the install proceedure at this time.

I know the budget for this write-up will not allow for the direct comparison of other products like TCP or FR. But if there's enough formatting to the article then others can add info about them using said format and we can cobble up a full fledged story. Once it is "written" I think it should be condensed into a single document and made available via PDF.

Power-assisted steering

dbfarr, since few people have looked into the early Mustang power-assisted steering like you have, I have a few questions and observations. I'm still learning about this system myself.

You mention that there is inherently 3 or so inches of slack designed into the control valve for it to sense movement. Could you explain this in more detail? You must be talking about movement at the steering wheel because there is physically only about a half inch of travel possible in a properly assembled and adjusted valve assembly. The ball stud only has a few hundredths of an inch of spring slack before it moves the spool inside the valve and starts hydraulic turning action.

May I ask who rebuilt your control valve or where you purchased it from?

A properly rebuilt control valve assembly should have no burrs or problems that causes the system to pull one way over the other. This is usually an adjustment problem.

Although more people have had favorable results from new reproduction control valves than not, they do have their own problems. Both the Stainless Steel Brake and Flaming River valves are built to tighter tolerances and are more likely to bind or stick. The SSBC valve has several parts that are designed differently from the original Bendix. These are not improvements and often cause problems. Because of this, they do not consider their own valve to be rebuildable. The Flaming River valve also is built differently than the original. It does not even use a real seal on both ends of the spool valve, just a rubber o'ring. A round o'ring is often used to seal, but not usually to a sliding surface. The seal surface of the spool valve is extremely rough compared to the original design, so I don't know how this is supposed to hold up over time. Personally, I do not think either repro valve is a superior or even an equal quality design to the original Bendix.

"Crossed" cylinder hoses. If you look at a 65/66 Mustang, the hoses from valve to cylinder run quite straight and parallel. Top of valve to top of cylinder, bottom to bottom. The drivers side tie rod ends on this model are curved to keep them from hitting the control valve under certain conditions. However, it is common for the adjusting sleeve (when improperly positioned) to have its bolts still hit the valve housing or end cap.
In 1967 Ford went to the use of straight tie rods. To give them more clearance from the control valve, Ford "twisted" the valve backwards in relation to the centerlink. That means that the cylinder hose ports on the valve housing run more front-to-back while the cylinder ports are more up-and-down. This is why the 1967 and later Fords look like the hoses are crossed. I don't think this was a "hangover" design, just a consequence of a modification needed because of the tie rod change.

The Saginaw recirculating-ball steering box has been around since the late 50's. It was "state of the art" at the time. Since this is a General Motors design, there is really no difference between the basic design of a Mustang box over a Corvette box. The Mustang box is the same manual or power except occasionally the internal ratios are adjustments are slightly different. It is not a perfect design, but a pretty good one. I thought it strange that the article you linked to made a big deal about Flaming River improving their boxes by using needle bearings to support the sector shaft instead of bushings. Ford changed from bushings to needle bearing on the 1963 Falcon, so the Mustang never has the poor bushing design to begin with.
May I ask, who built your steering box or where you purchased it from? A box that had a grinding situation towards one lock is generally a sign that the teeth are worn and require the adjustment nut to drive the sector shaft deep into the teeth on the rack block. Sometimes this causes the sector to drag on the inside of the housing at one end. This may have been your grinding. If so, the gears should have been replaced.
All steering boxes will have some accumulative play, but that your new Flaming River box had almost as much as your old box shows a problem. Most people are happy with their Flaming River box, but I have run across several unhappy users. I have heard that they are made in Argentina, but have not had the chance to take one apart and see for myself. If so, I have seen Argentine reproduction steering box parts and find them of poor quality and design.

I have seen Mustangs with steering linkages under them from other year Mustangs and even Mavericks, Granadas, etc. Since all of these cars use different length centerlinks and tie rods, and different location holes for them, I do not recommend using anything except what Ford originally designed for each model. The differences in steering geometry can't be good.

Though my questions and observations were to dbfarr, I would welcome any comments or questions from any other members of the board. Though I have a lot of Ford factory manuals and literature on the power steering systems, and several years experience in rebuilding them, I find that I often learn something new occasionally if I'm not careful

I knew I wasn't alone. Either way, I'm all for DIY on a budget, and Randall's rack is right up there.