Randalls rack

Cloudbuster · Dec 11, 2003

Is anyone using the power rack and pinion setup from Randalls rack? I have decided to replace the factory power system in my Fastback with an R&P unit, and this is by far the most affordable power unit I have been able to find. For any one who isn't familer with it, here is a link Randalls Rack

gp001 · Dec 11, 2003

http://forums.stangnet.com/search.php?searchid=189877

Cloudbuster · Dec 11, 2003

Thanks for the link, but I have already found those post when I did a search on the topic. Unfortunatly nobody on those post has installed the system.

Cloudbuster · Dec 13, 2003

I posted this question on a couple other message boards, and didn't get any results their either, so I sent Randall an email with the following questions:

1) After installing this system on my car, what kind of handling should I expect? i.e.: Will the steering be as tight as a modern car?
2) Does your system introduce any bumpsteer problems?
3) Do I need any special tools or skills to complete the installation?
4) How is turning radius affected?
5) Any ground clearance problems?
6) Do I need to purchase any additional parts to complete the installation, or is everything included in the kit?
7) If I ever need to replace any of the components, do I have to get them from you, or can I get them from a local parts store?
8) What is the total cost for the power R&P unit (tax & shipping)?
I also asked him to give me some references of some people who have used the system that I can talk to.

I sent him this email on Thursday morning, but I haven't hear anything back yet. I'll keep you guys posted.

daveoxide · Dec 13, 2003

Cloudbuster said:
I posted this question on a couple other message boards, and didn't get any results their either, so I sent Randall an email with the following questions:

1) After installing this system on my car, what kind of handling should I expect? i.e.: Will the steering be as tight as a modern car?
2) Does your system introduce any bumpsteer problems?
3) Do I need any special tools or skills to complete the installation?
4) How is turning radius affected?
5) Any ground clearance problems?
6) Do I need to purchase any additional parts to complete the installation, or is everything included in the kit?
7) If I ever need to replace any of the components, do I have to get them from you, or can I get them from a local parts store?
8) What is the total cost for the power R&P unit (tax & shipping)?
I also asked him to give me some references of some people who have used the system that I can talk to.

I may be able to answer a few of those questions for you from my experience with a rack and pinion in my mustang.

1) Yes, the steering will be tighter, similar to a modern car. No more "driving like a movie star" to go in a straight line.
2) It may or may not, astleast, it won't make it any worse than it is already . But bump steer can always be fixed with a bump steer kit. Mine bumpsteers just a little bit, just like it did with the old stock setup.
3)????
4) The turning radius will be larger, albeit not as bad as my Taurus rack, but still noticably more than stock. Not a big concern except when in tight parking areas, but it is easily overlooked because of the other significant benefits gained from the rack.
5) ??? Not with mine.....
6-8) ???

I think that you would be very happy with the unit. I will never go back to a recirculating ball again! I have been using my setup for a few years now and it is just incredible how nice it feels, like a new car. I had a fellow classic mustang owner drive my car once and he almost put it in the ditch when he made a turn. He expected the usual slop in the wheel, but there isn't any. He expected to be "driving like a movie star" but instead we were swerving all over the road! Once you go rack, you never go back! Take a look at my webpage for some ideas on what I did to my Mustang.

Red Barchetta · Dec 13, 2003

daveoxide, I checked out your site and see that you are using a Taurus R&P unit. Very cool setup. A couple things about your responses.

Bumpsteer. The difference between the Taurus unit and Randall's is that the Taurus is an end take-off whereas the Randall unit is a center take-off. The end take-off units tend to have more bump-steer as you are stuck with the fixed width of the rack. With a center take off, they are able to position the steering linkage in a manner that reduces bumpsteer. Granted, this is assuming the manufacturer has taken this into consideration. Don't think you could ever completely eliminate it, but it can be significantly reduced.

Turning radius/travel. Each rack has a different amount of travel which will affect turning radius. TCP's rack works pretty damn good. I've driven their '67 test mule and didn't notice an increase in turning radius (which is I think what you meant to say). A decrease in turning radius would make the car turn sharper. As a comparison, DB Engineering used to offer a R&P setup (don't know if they still do) but it had limited travel and made for a very poor (increase) turning radius.

daveoxide · Dec 13, 2003

Red Barchetta said:
daveoxide, I checked out your site and see that you are using a Taurus R&P unit. Very cool setup. A couple things about your responses.

Bumpsteer. The difference between the Taurus unit and Randall's is that the Taurus is an end take-off whereas the Randall unit is a center take-off. The end take-off units tend to have more bump-steer as you are stuck with the fixed width of the rack. With a center take off, they are able to position the steering linkage in a manner that reduces bumpsteer. Granted, this is assuming the manufacturer has taken this into consideration. Don't think you could ever completely eliminate it, but it can be significantly reduced.

I agree. But like you said, assuming they have taken it into consideration. Even then, the amount of room you have to move things around inder the oil pan there is minimal, that is why they have those handy little bump steer "sticks" that stick further down on the spindle. But you are right, I do have less options for fixing bumpsteer. The front end geometry on our mustands are so messed up it isn't even funny....

Turning radius/travel. Each rack has a different amount of travel which will affect turning radius. TCP's rack works pretty damn good. I've driven their '67 test mule and didn't notice an increase in turning radius (which is I think what you meant to say). A decrease in turning radius would make the car turn sharper. As a comparison, DB Engineering used to offer a R&P setup (don't know if they still do) but it had limited travel and made for a very poor (increase) turning radius.

Right, increase, not decrease . I have talked with an owner of a TCP rack about turning radius, and he said it did increase a little, but it isn't too bad. The end to end throw of the original stock steering setup is about 7.75" (if my mind serves me correctly). My Taurus rack is a meager 5.25" of travel, and the Cavalier style rack (center steer, what TCP kinda modeled theirs after) is about 6.25" of travel (once again, my mind is playing games with me today). The trick is finding a rack that has a lot of travel, which basically doesn't exist. So we are forced to use racks with less travel and if we want it to turn sharp, we need to add little pieces that move the tie rod pivot point on the spindle further forward to help decrease the turning radius. It's just a big game of give and take. But would we be having fun if it wasn't!

Cloudbuster · Dec 16, 2003

Hi guys,
Randall sent me the following answers to my questions, and then even followed up with a phone call to make sure I didn't have any further questions. He was a really nice guy to talk to, and seemed very up front an honest.
Unfortunatly I won't be able to use his system until I upgrade to a T5. Apparently there are some clearance problems between the steering shaft and the Z bar (No clearance problems with an automatic).
Here's the email he sent me:

Thanks for the mail Jason,

I had a serious computer virus and have been catching up on mail. Sorry. I will go through your list and try to help you out.

1 The handling of your car is improved a huge amount over your original system but it is unfair to compare it to a modern car. New cars have an entirely different design from the ground up. All the way from geometry to materials used throughout the car. The difference in having R&P in your car is dramatically better than the old ford steering though.

2 MMMMM Bump steer! WE have simply copied the geometry that ford designed into the car with he exception of having the center link slightly higher to compensate for cars that have been lowered to help minimize bump. Our system does not introduce any but but rather helps to minimize it.

3 No special skills other than being good with tools. System comes with easy to follow pictures and explanations.

4 Tuning radius is about 3 feet larger and is not an issue in 95% of street driving. No different than tcp. If you modify the spindle like I show on our web site it will give you a stock turning radius. The other guys don't tell you that. You can also add on a bump steer kit. They are designed to move the outer tie rod ahead which will do the same job.

5 ground clearance will depend on how much you chose to lower your car.

6 You need to buy the inner late model granada/mustang tie rods

7 The rack will have to be supplied from us. It is not available over the counter in the same configuration as ours.

8 We can have a system to you for $1100. S/H

chepsk8 · Dec 16, 2003

Rack & Pinion

Just thought I'd input my experiences....

I've also had a Taurus system in my car for over four years now. Worked great from the start. (pics on my website) My turning circle did increase by a bunch, though I can't give you any percentage numbers to compare. But the advantages outwieghed that considerably. The highway feel is fabulous! No wander, constant wheel correction, etc., just bullet straight. I had evil bump-steer, because of the lower rack lication to clear everything, but the BAER Bump-steer kit fixed that. One funny thing is that I feel much more of the road, even with the Tauruas rag joint still in. Mine too is an automatic, so lots of room. Why not convert to a hydraulic clutch set-up, since it is also a better and more modern way. My next stick Mustang will loose that stinkin' Z-bar the minute it comes home!

If you can find it, I wrote a few articles in the Hemmings Mustang magazine, one of which covers the Mustang bump-steer problem with the rack steering. Try to find it.

Randall's has a good solution, I am also quite curious to hear how it works.

Cloudbuster · Dec 16, 2003

There isn't a hydraulic clutch setup available for a 3 speed transmission is there? I thought they were only available for "pull" style clutches.

randallsrack.co · Dec 17, 2003

Hello guys, Thanks for talking with me yesterday Cloudbuster. I hope you got the answers you needed. Also thanks to Chepsk8 for your work with the Taurus rack. Good motivator.
Our system simply copies the ford dimensions and locates the center link as high as possible to help minimize bump in lowered cars. This does the same job as lowering the outside tie rod.
On our web site I show a "fix" to the turning radius problem. I modified a granada spindle and moved the hole ahead about 1 inch. I had a machine shop put the proper taper to accept a granada tie rod end. With the fix the turning radius is returned to stock. You can also use a bump steer kit to move the tie rod ahead. The manual Omni rack that is used only has a travel of 5 inches vs 6 for this rack. The loss of turning radius with the omni rack cannot be made up by using this modification.
The stock mustang moves about 6-1/2 inches. Our rack is 6 inches.
Be aware that the Omni rack that is being used steers like a battleship!
I see that our cross member design that we have been using for over a year and a half has been copied
We are continually working on fine tuning our system and there is alot of engineering that has gone into it and there have been some good suggestions from some customers that are helping to make it an even better system. Thanks for looking at our system and if you have any questions let me know.
www.randallsrack.com

TheAnswerMan · Dec 17, 2003

Randall,

None of the pictures on your site show up. They all lead to bad links.

66P51GT · Dec 18, 2003

TheAnswerMan said:
Randall,

None of the pictures on your site show up. They all lead to bad links.

Confirmed.

randallsrack.co · Dec 19, 2003

Thanks for the heads up on the web site

I am not sure whats going on. I will contact my web guy. Hacked maybe?

randallsrack.co · Dec 19, 2003

Looks like the pictures were pooched."We will rebuild it". Thanks. Randall

daveoxide · Dec 20, 2003

Randall, I commend you on your excellent work with designing a rack and pinion system for these old Mules , and I speak from experience!

I really like the mounting bracket you made to attach the rack to the frame rails. I may have to try something similar with my Taurus rack (when I have the time that is....).

You have made a very affordable and overall great kit (from what I have seen in pictures) for those that don't want the "top of the line" rack and pinion system. It is nice to see an alternative for those that don't have money trees growing in their yard .

I admire your work and I hope you keep designing affordable racks for years to come!

Cloudbuster · Feb 29, 2004

Well, I finished my power rack and pinion conversion from Randalls Rack a few weeks ago, and have put a little over 200 miles on my car since. I must say, I am very happy with it so far. The car handles great, and it is much more fun to drive now, especially at highway speeds!
I put some pictures of the installation on my website if anyone wants to check them out. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/CloudBuster
Feel free to email me if you guys have any questions.

bnickel · Feb 29, 2004

hey cloudbuster thanks for the update, i'm glad you like the system, might make my decision a bit easier, thanks again, and when you get some more pics be sure and let us know

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