REAR END EXPERTS PLEASE HELP!!

[hbk_136]

Ok, i am replacing my whole differential and pinion. I have removed everything and now i am trying to re-install. I bought a whole rear end rebuild kit to use. I completed assembled everything on the pinion, all the shims and bearings and seals necessary. After i got it all together, i put it in and totally tightened it down all the way with the pinion nut. BUT...there is still about 1/8 inch of play left in it and this is so not allowed. I measured all the shims and used the correct ones, and i cannot figure out what is going on.

Has anyone else ran into this problem, or have an idea? I am stumped here and getting really mad, (yelling, cussing, punching, threatening to sell, etc.)

:damnit:

Please if anyone can help, say something!

 

[PhLoBuS]

do you have a richmond install kit?

 

[87'GTstang]

Did you use precision measurment tools to measure pinion depth, clearance between the ring and pinion, and so on? If you have too much slack then something isn't set all the way in like it is supposed to or you don't have it shimmed right. Find the specs for the min and max tolerances which are available in a lot of places and then compare yours (hoping and assuming you have measurment tools), whichever one(s) are extreme are the ones you must re-set.

 

[axeman]

do you mean an 1/8" of play between the ring gear and pinion gear? if so, you'll have to either reshim the pinion gear with a thicker shim or shim the carrier towards the passenger side.

or do you mean that there is an 1/8" of play on the pinion gear? if so, sounds like you haven't even begun to crush the crush collar yet.

 

[hbk_136]

The problem is, we cannot begin to crush the crush collar yet because we have already tightened the pinion nut to the point where is has bottomed out. We used precise measurements tools for the shims so should we just go thicker anyways? We measured the exact amount of play in it and it has .014" on in/out play of the pinion? Can we just add a shim on there bigger than usual to compensate for this extra?

 

[giddyup306]

How does your tooth contact pattern look? If it lookes good your f***ed and I don't know what to tell you then. It should be wayyyy back (the pinion). Sounds like you need bigger shims.

 

[Idwitheld-1`]

The problem is, we cannot begin to crush the crush collar yet because we have already tightened the pinion nut to the point where is has bottomed out. We used precise measurements tools for the shims so should we just go thicker anyways? We measured the exact amount of play in it and it has .014" on in/out play of the pinion? Can we just add a shim on there bigger than usual to compensate for this extra?

Are you using a NEW crush sleave or trying to use the old one?

Always use new and measure the bearing pre-load.

The #1 problem is developing enough torque to crush the sleave. It takes like 600Ft. lbs. to do this.

 

[axeman]

sounds like you don't need to re-shim, you need to tighten the pinion nut more. to keep the pinion still, i always stick a prybar through one of the holes for the driveshaft bolts. you must have done something along these lines to get to where you are now. crushing that pinion is not an easy task. use a nice size breaker bar and put some major muscle into it, legs work good here. impact would work better though. tighten away, but check the play often, because if you overtighten, you will need to start over with a new crush collar.

 

[hbk_136]

I am using a new crush collar. I thought about re-shimming, but instructions tell me not to use any shim bigger than .038" and to fix the play by shimming, i would have to use a .044".

I guess i will try putting a tremendous amount more of force to tighten the pinion nut, maybe use the impact. i will attempt to try this tomorrow if the hurricane allows me to. Thanks for your help, and i'll keep you posted.

 

[Idwitheld-1`]

I am using a new crush collar. I thought about re-shimming, but instructions tell me not to use any shim bigger than .038" and to fix the play by shimming, i would have to use a .044".

I guess i will try putting a tremendous amount more of force to tighten the pinion nut, maybe use the impact. i will attempt to try this tomorrow if the hurricane allows me to. Thanks for your help, and i'll keep you posted.

I would set your pinion gears side by side and compare feature sizes: spline length, shoulder lengths etc. You may have a bad or wrong part...wouldn't be the first time.

Refresh the memory:
same pumpkin housing?
same carrier
new pinion gear?
new ring gear?

Did you replace the pinion bearing race? I wonder if it has moved or worn down...or something is different about it? Are you using a new pinion bearing? I wonder if its the wrong bearing?

Place the old pinion gear (+ shims) in the housing push it all the way in. Do you have enough threads clearing the exterior? Do the same for the new gear. Should look the same. If not, bad gear set. (unless your using two different pinion bearings...in which you would have to use the same bearing for each test to isolate the problem).
Keep us posted. Gears can be tough...but you can do it!

 

[hbk_136]

They are the same measurements, we had them side by side. I am just upgrading from a factory 3.08 to a factory 3.27, because my old one was grinding away and i needed to replaced the entire differential.

Did you replace the pinion bearing race? I wonder if it has moved or worn down...or something is different about it? Are you using a new pinion bearing? I wonder if its the wrong bearing?

I replaced the pinion bearing race, and it is the right size, i got it in there good. I bought an entire 8.8" Ford rear end rebuild kit with all of the races, bearings, shims, nuts, and compounds. But like i said they are the same size.

Another problem i am running into, is we can't get the bearings on the differential pumpkin. For the pinion bearings, we put them in the oven to 250 degrees and froze the spots on the pinion where the bearing goes with freon to shrink the pinion and expand the bearings. This worked perfectly for both pinion bearings, but it is not working for the differential pumpkin. I am now kind of out of ideas. Any suggestions here, besides taking it to a shop and using there hydraulic press?

 

[axeman]

let me get this straight, you did not get the differential in yet right? and you have slop in the pinion gear? did you tighten the pinion nut to a certain psi? don't bother tightening the nut to a certain psi, tigthen it to where you just bairly have slop in the pinion gear. then go very slow from there while measuring bearing preload.

hydraulic press is probably the easiest way for the bearings. if you use a press for the differential, i'd do it without the ring gear on, it will be alot less weight to deal with and there would be no chance of chipping the gear.

 

[hbk_136]

let me get this straight, you did not get the differential in yet right? and you have slop in the pinion gear? did you tighten the pinion nut to a certain psi? don't bother tightening the nut to a certain psi, tigthen it to where you just bairly have slop in the pinion gear. then go very slow from there while measuring bearing preload.

hydraulic press is probably the easiest way for the bearings. if you use a press for the differential, i'd do it without the ring gear on, it will be alot less weight to deal with and there would be no chance of chipping the gear.

No i don't have the differential in yet. I am not sure how tight we torqued the pinion nut to, but the more me and my mechanic/father think about it, we did not torque it enough. So i am going to buy a new pinion nut and go from there.

After considering every possibility, i guess i will have to break down and go to a shop for their hydraulic press on the differential bearings. I didn't want to, and i never have been to a shop before, but i guess it takes a real man to admit his own defeat, and frankly, i've been

And by the way, thanks for all your help axeman and idwitheld, you have been a big help for me.

 

[Idwitheld-1`]

This is exactly why I bought a 20 ton shop press and bearing splitters. You just can't substitute for the right tools.
Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[axeman]

i don't think that you need a new pinion nut, just make sure to use some blue locktight. i've reused pinion nuts before without a problem. you won't need a new crush collar either since you have yet to crush it. just thought i would tell you since i'm not sure i really specified earlier, when tightening the pinion nut, it will feel like you hit the end of it's travel right before you start to crush the collar. starting to crush the collar can be very difficult and requires alot of torque. this is when you have to start checking for slop in the pinion. keep tightening the pinion until there is bairly any slop and start checking bearing preload.

you haven't been defeated, just a little setback that's all. it's a pretty straightforward project, just takes a time. next time will be much easier.

 

[87'GTstang]

Yep sometimes you just can't get away without the right tools. The wheel bearings take a tremendous amount of even and sqaure application force to get them to go in the axle tubes - trust me, you will not be able to do this without the aid of something like a press (so don't feel too bad).