rear mount turbo help please

[viridionplague]

so after a long debate about what kind of FI to use i ran into an add for sts turbos, after reading a bunch about rear mount turbos i decided i am going to give this a shot in a true DIY fasion. However i am currently in the planning stages and have run into a few problems that research has not left me the answers.

i plan on finding 2, 14b turbos from old eclipses. i chose these because they are internaly gated, and run 2.0 liter engines to about 15 psi pretty well. so each turbo handling 2.5 liters at 8-10 psi should be no problem.

Q's i have involve the boost controller and oiling.

1. for the boost controller hookup to the wastegate, a T fitting should work for the vacuum line correct?

2. i was wondering if there might be a way around haveing to tap the oil pan, maybe some kind of self contained system with an electric pump or something to that effect? i know the oil return is going to need a scavenging pump so any info on where to find / how to wire would be greatly appreciated.

 

[millhouse]

so after a long debate about what kind of FI to use i ran into an add for sts turbos, after reading a bunch about rear mount turbos i decided i am going to give this a shot in a true DIY fasion. However i am currently in the planning stages and have run into a few problems that research has not left me the answers.

i plan on finding 2, 14b turbos from old eclipses. i chose these because they are internaly gated, and run 2.0 liter engines to about 15 psi pretty well. so each turbo handling 2.5 liters at 8-10 psi should be no problem.

Q's i have involve the boost controller and oiling.

1. for the boost controller hookup to the wastegate, a T fitting should work for the vacuum line correct?

2. i was wondering if there might be a way around haveing to tap the oil pan, maybe some kind of self contained system with an electric pump or something to that effect? i know the oil return is going to need a scavenging pump so any info on where to find / how to wire would be greatly appreciated.

With all of the available room under the hood of the 5.0 mustang, there is no need to run an inferior rear mount setup. The ONLY reason you see them being run on certain vehicles is due to packaging issues. There will be more lag...and the setup will be less effecient than a similarly sized standard turbo setup.

Also, the 14b turbo's are far too small for a turbo stang. You will need at a minimum a pair of .42/.48 turbos...or better yet, .60/.48 or .60/.63's found on svo mustangs/turbocoupes.

Another issue is that there is not much room for them under the fox platform. I have seen an example of someone that completed one...and they ended up rigging a gaurd of sorts to protect the turbo's. In the end, they took it off for a conventional setup as it was far too much hastle for what it was worth (major ground clearance issues).

There is no way around tapping/welding a bung on the oil pan. You need the oil capacity to cool the oil down from the turbo's...so unless you plan on running an additional 5 quarts in a remote resevoir with an oil cooler, plan on figuring out a way to put a fitting on the stock pan.

 

[str8stang036]

there is a lot of info on turbomustangs.com. If you do go rear mount, make sure you get a reliable/ good scaveng pump or you will be miserable. Ask me I know, I had low mounted twins up front and the pumo issue was a pain. Also, I believe STS uses Jabsco pumps for their rear mount turbo.

 

[viridionplague]

im aware of the awkwardness of the situation, but for my application/budget/room and space/ease of install, and so on and on i will probably go this route.

for the 14b's they are cheap and easy to get, as well boosting in the 5-10 psi range and are about the same size as the stock mufflers so ground clearance isnt to big of an issue, but i have yet to get my car in the air and take a good look.

i also want twin turbos and with how much you lose and how much more of a PITA it is to do in the engine bay along with engine temps and things like that.

 

[millhouse]

im aware of the awkwardness of the situation, but for my application/budget/room and space/ease of install, and so on and on i will probably go this route.

for the 14b's they are cheap and easy to get, as well boosting in the 5-10 psi range and are about the same size as the stock mufflers so ground clearance isnt to big of an issue, but i have yet to get my car in the air and take a good look.

i also want twin turbos and with how much you lose and how much more of a PITA it is to do in the engine bay along with engine temps and things like that.

For your application, all of the budget/room and space/ease of install is better with a standard configuration. Remote mount setups require more parts/tubing and in the end will be more expensive than a more efficient, underhood setup.

While the 14b’s are cheap and easy to get…they are FAR TOO SMALL for a 5.0l mustang. They are likely to be far out of their efficiency range even at 5-10psi.

If you want twin turbo’s, fitting it in the engine compartment is a piece of cake! It’s far easier to package them in the engine bay than a remote mount setup….and engine temps are not bad at all! Just wrap your downpipes with header wrap and throw some turbo blankets or heat shields on and call it good. Hell, you can flip the stock headers if you want to be real cheap (I myself picked up some kick ass headers from B&G).

Check out my build thread here… My DIY turbo kit is underway...PICS!!! - Corral Forums

There are a few pics on the first couple of pages…but the rest have been re-linked on the last few.

 

[Zero Signal]

Someone else here did this. He mounted them behind the cowl unlets in the rear fender. It was cool and it worked, but if I remember correctly, it didn't work all that well and I think he scrapped it.

 

[BlownFiveLiter]

Here is the thread that you're referring to, John:

http://forums.stangnet.com/571566-twin-turbo-build-progress-pics.html

 

[millhouse]

Here is the thread that you're referring to, John:

http://forums.stangnet.com/571566-twin-turbo-build-progress-pics.html

That's the one...thanks for digging it up for me.

 

[str8stang036]

I agree with millhouse. If you visualize your turbo placements up front in engine bay, things usually go smooth. However if rear mount is what you really want, definetly research it before you go that route.

 

[Zero Signal]

Looks like he was happy with it so I wasn't remembering correctly I still think he changed his setup since then though.

 

[desertcox05]

I believe a magazine did a piece on one a while back, maybe 12-18 months year ago MUSTANG MONTHLY. maybe you can look on there for back issues or something. if you can't find it i'll try to dig it up.

 

[viridionplague]

i read that thread the other day, and it seems that it worked out pretty well for him.

im currently in college so doing this as cheaply is possable is part of the reason for this as i do not want to replace my headers and such.

also it may not be the most efficiant way of doing turbos but should i wish to go with a more efficiant under hood setup just about everything will swap over anyways, minus the piping.

ill try to find some t3's if i can get them cheap enough. internaly gated and such.

im trying to keep this under 1000 bucks so we will see how it goes.

 

[millhouse]

i read that thread the other day, and it seems that it worked out pretty well for him.

im currently in college so doing this as cheaply is possable is part of the reason for this as i do not want to replace my headers and such.

also it may not be the most efficiant way of doing turbos but should i wish to go with a more efficiant under hood setup just about everything will swap over anyways, minus the piping.

ill try to find some t3's if i can get them cheap enough. internaly gated and such.

im trying to keep this under 1000 bucks so we will see how it goes.

I can say without a doubt, the cheapest way is going to be a simple....under the hood setup using your stock shorty headers flipped over (be it a twin or single setup). Doing it for under 1000 is not going to be easy...especially considering your going to need some way to tune it, or at the very least a fmu and/or a maf & injectors. I'm not saying it can't be done (it absolutely can)....your just going to have to nickle and dime everything together.

Might I ask what your hp/tq goals are?

 

[viridionplague]

i actualy do not have my stock headers as i bought the car with bbk long tubes on it already.

i only plan on running around 5 psi of boost without a tune, and ive seen people posting around 330 hp and 380 tq with a rear mounted system.

also if i can keep it around 350 hp i should be fine with the #24 injectors that come on the cobra to begin with. but if needed ill get a maf and #42's , ive been leaning twords the abaco maf as it seems they are pretty good units but are around 400 bucks

the $1000 aim aiming for is without a tune, just looking to get everything together and running for that price.

i do however plan on steping up to a 393 in the future which is also adding some appeal to the rear mount setup for me.

final end result im looking for 600 hp and similar tq but now is not the time for that

 

[millhouse]

i actualy do not have my stock headers as i bought the car with bbk long tubes on it already.

i only plan on running around 5 psi of boost without a tune, and ive seen people posting around 330 hp and 380 tq with a rear mounted system.

also if i can keep it around 350 hp i should be fine with the #24 injectors that come on the cobra to begin with. but if needed ill get a maf and #42's , ive been leaning twords the abaco maf as it seems they are pretty good units but are around 400 bucks

the $1000 aim aiming for is without a tune, just looking to get everything together and running for that price.

i do however plan on steping up to a 393 in the future which is also adding some appeal to the rear mount setup for me.

final end result im looking for 600 hp and similar tq but now is not the time for that

Ooo...bbk longtube's eh? I'd still say sell em and pick up some shorties. Either way, a 393 setup will require you to re-fab quite a bit of your setup (will the longtubes even fit?) as the added deck height is going to throw everything off.

With 5psi and the gt40 heads, your likely to be closer to 350-400rwhp. Either way, the 24's are not going to cut it. At a minimum your going to need 36#ers. If you plan on upgrading the power output later on...your better off upgrading the injectors for future needs and tuning around them. There is no need to buy things twice.

Whatever route you take....make sure to post a build thread!

 

[viridionplague]

350-400 is always better,

if you could point me in the direction of finding decent prices on t3 turbos it would be great. im having a hard time finding a decent source for them.

ill more than likly get a maf/injectors and fuel pump because a few options opened up for me and should free up the budget a bit

 

[millhouse]

350-400 is always better,

if you could point me in the direction of finding decent prices on t3 turbos it would be great. im having a hard time finding a decent source for them.

ill more than likly get a maf/injectors and fuel pump because a few options opened up for me and should free up the budget a bit

Salvage yards and ebay are going to be your cheapest source for used t3 turbo’s. The problem can be though that they are not always in the condition as described….and are usually untested. You could find a pair for cheap and have them work great…or you could find out that one smokes like a bi$#& and the other scrapes the compressor wheel. Another option is some cheap (new) ebay turbo’s. While they are not always known for their reliability…they are cheap and usually come with quite a bit of hardware. If you decide to go that route, just make sure you research them to ensure they are the proper size (You can’t trust their claimed h/p ratings).

Here is a list of turbo’s on various OEM cars. Keep in mind, many listed may be too big/small for your combo. There is also some good info on many of the pages in the thread…so I’d recommend reading through as much as you can.

Junkyard Single/ Twin Turbo FAQ List

Whatever you pick, just be sure it has a standard flange arrangement. It makes it far easier and cheaper to fabricate…and will allow you to upgrade later on without having to worry about cutting off mounting flanges.

 

[OrangeMustangGt]

Listen to what they are saying. My setup worked well, however in the end it was MUCH easier building the kit under the hood (i did it both ways).

Plus, it has less lag and the major reason i removed the kit was ground clearance, it was almost undrivable...and the turbos were tight aganst the seat pan.

So, basically....I thought in the beginning it was easier to do a rear mount...but I learned. Dont make my mistake

 

[millhouse]

Listen to what they are saying. My setup worked well, however in the end it was MUCH easier building the kit under the hood (i did it both ways).

Plus, it has less lag and the major reason i removed the kit was ground clearance, it was almost undrivable...and the turbos were tight aganst the seat pan.

So, basically....I thought in the beginning it was easier to do a rear mount...but I learned. Dont make my mistake

And we commend you for learning that lesson for us!