Recommendations for jumpy suspension?

[ddtforu]

Hey all,

I've got a 64.5, that I installed a grab-a-track suspension on a couple of years ago, with the 620 sprints and the upper control arm lowering kit with ball joint wedges(it was more than the standard 1" shelby type drop), and I had it aligned by a reputable mustang guy. Well I haven't driven the car for about 6 months due to the suspension being very "jumpy". For example when on the freeway it will pull left or right with just about any abnormality on the road. Also there are noises coming from the ps of the car, yet when I checked all the bolts etc they all seem to be tight and nothing feels loose when I try and move stuff with my hands. Could it be a bad ball joint(s)? Both tires wore on the inside tread completely over the last few months that i drove it. I stopped driving it because i didn't feel safe in it, I can hardly keep it in one lane.

My question is, what are the most likely culprits that I can go after to get this thing riding somewhat normal. I'm thinking about junking the ball joint wedges, replacing the ball joints and going to no more than 1" drop for the upper control arm and getting lighter GT springs. But what other areas of the suspension/steering should I look at? I don't have $2500 for a coil over kit(I would love it though) or anything like that, so lets say I have about $3-500 dollars what would you guys out there with more experience do first to recommend so I can start driving my stang again?

Other info - it's got a 289, t-5 and power steering and disc brakes(although it pulls hard left if I hit the brakes hard - but that's another issue) and 17x8 rims.

Thanks for any and all help and suggestions.

D-

 

[Rusty67]

Try the CPP lower control arm kit and some 520 springs:
http://www.classicperform.com/NewProducts/2006/NewFiles/NovaSubFrame.htm
scroll down for the Mustang stuff.


I'd definately recomend checking out your upper arm as well as the spring perch. Those stock spring perches with the rubber bushing aren't really the way to go. If that sucker is worn out then I'd definately suguest an open tracker roller perch. Those 620s are too much spring for a 289 for sure but if it was riding ok before and its not now then something changed. Check your strut rod bushings and double check the lower arm bushing.

 

[hivewax]

i would take it back to the "reputable" Mustang guy. tires going bold on the inside indicates bad alignment. tell him how it drives and to inspect the suspension.

 

[Rusty67]

i would take it back to the "reputable" Mustang guy. tires going bold on the inside indicates bad alignment. tell him how it drives and to inspect the suspension.

I totally missed that when I read it. Good call. Have the alignment double checked. I would still recomend inspecting all the bushings before you take it in to him just so you know about it. Then if he tells you its worn suspension parts you know he is full of it.

 

[S-Car-Go]

I have the same front suspension (or very similar) and none of your problems.

Bad alignment for sure. Possibly worn tie rods and steering components in addition to the bad alignment.

 

[oz]

Also keep in mind that the original alignment specs assumed you were using bias ply tires. You need to add more caster to keep the car from wondering side to side.
As for the tire wear, I have always wondered if the Shelby drop contributed to excess tire wear on the inside edge. Since the point of the Shelby drop is to reverse the camber change during cornering - so that the inside edge of the tire touches the pavement, perhaps this is part of the problem. You mentioned that your setup dropped the upper control arm MORE than the Shelby mod, right? Sounds like you may have to replace tires more frequently with this setup.

 

[ddtforu]

thanks for the posts...the alignment was about 2.5 years and 5-7k miles ago so too late for a free redo. It was never great even before the suspension upgrade as far as keeping it straight down the lane(so maybe there were some other issues just beginning), but it started making some noises when driving from the passenger side suspension that I havent' been able to find the source of and it's definitely gotten much worse. It sounds like something is loose, but everything seems tight when I check all the bolts/nuts, and try and shake/pull on everything. Think I may just bite the bullet and replace as much of the suspension/steering as my budget will allow and just redo everything. I'm just trying to figure the most likely places to start, since I live in a condo comlex I have to be able to do it in a few hours while most people are at work since I'm not supposed to work on my car here.

I think the combination of the 1.5" drop(I remember it being some negative wedge kit that came with the suspension, probably overkill) and the 1" lowering springs and the higher spring rate contributing to other part failures.

 

[ddtforu]

...but I agree the alignment is probably out of whack now(wish I had caught the tire wear sooner, but didn't notice it until I took the wheels off to try and find the source of the noises coming from the suspension, only have about 7k miles on them at $145 each which sucks), but I remember the printouts from when he did it were all within spec.

 

[ddtforu]

anyone use rosehill strut rods?

anyone using the rosehill performance adjustable strut rods? Just came across those in researching what replacement parts I might get to get my suspension back in order for summer. I like the $230 price much better than the $340 or so for most other ones.

 

[Rusty67]

You will get more milage out of the opentracker roller perches then those spiffy strut rods in terms of ride quality. You can put new rubber bushings in the strut rods for all of 20 bux or so. The lower suspension kit I linked to earlier replaces the lower arm and the strut rod and gives you a lower A-arm which is a much better way to go. There is a little more work involved with it as it isn't a true bolt in swap but its a better system at the end of the day and doesn't break the bank.

I think the most important thing is geting the car back on the road. Find out what is worn and replace it, then get it aligned with the correct specs.

http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/rollerperch/

 

[66Runt]

Based on your description it sounds like a bad case of toe out coupled with some (normal) bump steer.
Replace the tires, have the front end inspected and aligned. If nothing is worn past the limits, 1/8" of toe in, 0*-0.5* negative camber, and as much positive caster as you can get will make a big difference.
Replace all that is worn, and realign. You'll be pleasantly suprised by the difference.
64.5 should have had a bronze bushed spring perch. If they are still there, they work very well. A lot got changed to rubber bushed later model perches unfortunately.

 

[ddtforu]

Thanks for all the feedback, I definitely got some great ideas about where to start, and after reading this post http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=737405 about how their car acted I was definitely seeing the effects of bump steer which has been amplified due to some other worn parts which has probably contributed to the alignment getting out of whack which in turn makes the bump steer worse...and round and round it goes.

Do you guys think I should leave the UCA drop kit and ball joint wedge kit in there? I'm probably going to switch out the 620 springs for 520's, because I'm also getting more tire rub than I'd like, and I need a little more clearance. Now I just have to find the time and money to do all these things that I want....isn't that the hardest thing most of the time!

 

[SoCalCruising]

X2 on the need for more pos. caster. An adj. strut rod would help here. Try one thing at a time, even though it will take longer, overall (maybe), to get things done. You're likely to find that you won't need to replace as much as you think. Tires, adj. strut rod, and new alignment may do it. Tire rub may be due to the alignment. I've run 225/50-16s in front without rubbing. If you are using a larger tire, that will contribute to steering issues. I now run a 205/55-16 and am happier.

 

[chromedog]

x2 on the toe...i had my 65 aligned by another reputable guy, and wore the tires out at 5000 miles. turns out the toe was almost 3/4 inch toed out, it should be 1/8 total. also, dont let who ever realigns your car compensate for the crown of the road, you want it to be as close side to side as possible...

 

[dodgestang]

You haven't shared what specs the car was aligned to. You mention a printout and it was 'close to spec'. If the car was aligned close to 66 spec it will handle poorly with the mods. You need to supply the alignment specs you want to the shop and have it aligned to them.

 

[rbohm]

have the suspension aligned to these specs;

caster +3 degrees
camber -0.5 to +0.5 degrees
toe in 1/8"

the next thing you need to deal with is bump steer. there are a few bumpsteer correction kits on the market, pick one that is adjustable.

this should correct your problems.

 

[ddtforu]

Couldn't find the spec sheet that he gave me(but it probably was done to '65 spec, not taking into acct the mods), it was a couple years ago, but thanks rbohm for giving me specs that I can take in and ask for. Damn now I'm all excited about the mustang again, i'd kind of forgotten how much fun it is to drive. Just wish I didn't have to have just put $600 in tires on my jeep...that sure could have went a long way to get my mustang back on the road. Think the gov't will send me another rebate check if I ask nicely? haha.

 

[mdjay]

You could have lost the shims on the UCA. I had this happen to me before. Then the bolt would have slack, make noise and cause all kinds of problems.

 

[MitchGT]

Your suspension is off, as demonstrated by your tire wear, but the steering box could be sloppy too, which would just compound your problems. If the engine is turned off (no power assist), how far can you turn your steering wheel before the tires start to turn? Is there a large dead spot where the steering wheel turns freely in the middle before getting tight (slop)?

 

[ddtforu]

Well at least part of my problem is completely shot spring perch bushings you can see pics of that and the tire wear on this thread http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=749999 but there may be other things - possible worn ball joint(s) and a case of bumpsteer. But I do believe it was also aligned to factory spec which sounds like it wouldn't work well with the mods that have been done. I'll check the steering you mentioned, but in reading some of the other threads about alignment, my steering doesn't want to return to center, the wheels will almost stay turned. I'm going to save up and get a few parts so I can change out everything I think may be worn at once so I only have to get it aligned once. I'm thinking new roller spring perches, lca's and ball joints, and possibly lighter duty springs. And if I can muster up the cash, maybe a bump steer kit, or adjustable tie rods.

Anyone familiar with mustang ranch in santa clara, CA? their right down the road and they say they work with a shop next door for doing alignments, I'm going to go to them with the specs suggested on this thread when I get it ready.