Retrofit roller lifter options

[Decurion]

Im interested in putting a roller cam in my 302 that is pre-roller, and thought I had a set of retrofit lifters picked out, but as I was reading the "400hp 351" thread, I posted a link to some retrofit roller lifters I thought would work and was told they wont. After some searching on Summits site, Im more confused than ever. Theres literally hundreds of different kinds of roller lifters, many of which say they can be used in non-roller blocks. Im not ready to step up to solid rollers (yet), dont want to limit myself to reduced base circle cams, and dont want a cam/lifter combo, so that narrows things down quite a bit, but there still is an awful lot of different lifters that claim they work. My question to those who have done this is: what are my options for a set of retrofit rollers? Prices seem to range from $220 for the ones I thought would work, to well over $600. My short block is fresh, so no reason to just build a new engine.

 

[classic boost]

you have two options.

1. use standard hyd roller lifters. you need the 'spider' and dogbones. this is how a late model 5.0 is set up. BUT, using this setup on a non-roller block requires that you use a small base circle cam.

2. use crane linked hyd roller lifters. you won't need the spider, dogbones, or the small base circle cam. you can use any 5.0 hyd roller cam. the only drawback with this option is the cost of the lifters.

 

[classic boost]

to add-
i think the crower lifters are adding to your confusion. i think they're too inexpensive to be the linked type. their catalog isn't clear on that. call them to verify.

 

[Decurion]

part number 66335-16, $213.99, ad says: These Crower hydraulic roller lifters combine the performance level of a roller with the reliability of a hydraulic. They feature a completely redesigned body and bearing, and can be retrofitted for earlier-style blocks.

Part number 66337-16, $564.99, ad says: HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS RETRO-FIT 328-302 FORD

Of course these are just the 2 in question from Crower, I dont have a brand preference as long as they work good.

 

[Decurion]

For once I have time to kill sitting in front of the computer. It looks like these are my options, someone correct me if Im wrong. A far cry from the ~$220 I was hoping to spend! Summits site says if the link bars are included or not, and these are the ones that are included.

Crane: Crane Cams 36532-16 - Crane Hydraulic Roller Lifters - summitracing.com
Comp: COMP Cams 8931-16 - COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters - summitracing.com
Ford: Ford Racing M-6500-S58 - Ford Racing Hydraulic Roller Lifters - summitracing.com
Crower: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=CRO-66337-16&N=700+115&autoview=sku

 

[Decurion]

And even eBay specials as low as $239 a set.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=360094104159

 

[BlueMonster65]

i'm using the FRPP roller tie-bar lifters. very good part for the price. it works out to be about the same cost as if you did the dogbone conversion and won't compromise the block by having to drill the mounting holes for the dogbone.

 

[D.Hearne]

For once I have time to kill sitting in front of the computer. It looks like these are my options, someone correct me if Im wrong. A far cry from the ~$220 I was hoping to spend! Summits site says if the link bars are included or not, and these are the ones that are included.

Crane: Crane Cams 36532-16 - Crane Hydraulic Roller Lifters - summitracing.com
Comp: COMP Cams 8931-16 - COMP Cams Pro Magnum Hydraulic Roller Lifters - summitracing.com
Ford: Ford Racing M-6500-S58 - Ford Racing Hydraulic Roller Lifters - summitracing.com
Crower: Crower 66337-16 - - summitracing.com

All of the link bar lifters should work with the std base circle cams. The Crower's though will not. Keep in mind though on the initial cost, that. that's a one time investment, and unless somehow the cam lobes fail (which is rarely with a roller) you will be able to reuse these lifters on other cams if desired.. Either route you go with cam and lifters will cost you about the same money, only with the O.E. rollers and a reduced base cam, the cam cost's far more if you choose to change it. The std base 5.0 cams run in cost from as little as $50 for a used B303 to $175 for a new FMS alphabet or Trick flow cam. And these cams cover just about every rpm range you could ever desire.

 

[bnickel]

for about half of what the others cost i think i'd give the $200 ebay specials a try, if you aren't that brave then i'd go with the Ford Racing lifters.

BTW, i think the ebay specials are the same ones i post about in the other thread made by CAT power.

 

[bnickel]

Erson also has a retro roller for SBF too.

Pro Race Hydraulic Roller Lifters - SB Ford - USA Performance Parts

 

[D.Hearne]

for about half of what the others cost i think i'd give the $200 ebay specials a try, if you aren't that brave then i'd go with the Ford Racing lifters.

BTW, i think the ebay specials are the same ones i post about in the other thread made by CAT power.

If you've followed Jay Brown's escapades with his SOHC 427 in Hot Rod's powertour, you'd get a pretty good idea why cheap roller lifters should be avoided. His weren't cheap, but apparently the steels used in the rollers wasn't up to the rigors of following a roller cam's profile. He tried two different brands too. Both sets had complete failures, one by one. If you're going to try em, do it with a cheap test mule first.

 

[bnickel]

If you've followed Jay Brown's escapades with his SOHC 427 in Hot Rod's powertour, you'd get a pretty good idea why cheap roller lifters should be avoided. His weren't cheap, but apparently the steels used in the rollers wasn't up to the rigors of following a roller cam's profile. He tried two different brands too. Both sets had complete failures, one by one. If you're going to try em, do it with a cheap test mule first.

ummmm, well i wouldn't exactly call that a great comparison there either....after all that car is making something like, 900hp or more, right? i think for a more normal street/strip motor it would be less of an issue

 

[D.Hearne]

It wasn't the horspower numbers though, his roller followers also failed in normal highway driving, while babying it down the highway. He had only made about a half dozen passes with the motor on the track.

 

[callys]

In the 351 windsor I built for my mach 1, I am using a set of roller lifters pulled from a junkyard 5.0 that I cleaned out. I also pulled the dogbones and the retainer from the same car in the junkyard. You can put the lifters and dogbones in your pockets if you really want to. If you just pay for it all...well its a far, far cry from $200.

I had the machine shop that did the block work install the studs to retain the plate.

Some people will tell me that is stupid, for sure, but between my brother and I we have put cams in several 5.0 cars and always re-used the lifters...never had a problem.

 

[bnickel]

In the 351 windsor I built for my mach 1, I am using a set of roller lifters pulled from a junkyard 5.0 that I cleaned out. I also pulled the dogbones and the retainer from the same car in the junkyard. You can put the lifters and dogbones in your pockets if you really want to. If you just pay for it all...well its a far, far cry from $200.

I had the machine shop that did the block work install the studs to retain the plate.

Some people will tell me that is stupid, for sure, but between my brother and I we have put cams in several 5.0 cars and always re-used the lifters...never had a problem.

what year 351w block did you use? the 94-97 blocks are roller cam blocks so they can easily use the 5.0 roller lifters and not have any problems. if you have an earlier block then it's just plain dumb luck that it's working, i guarantee they're not supposed to work in an early block unless you use a reduced base circle cam or bush the lifter bores with a bronze bushing that is taller than the block lifter bores.

if you are running a factory roller cam with with low lift numbers you also might be eaking it out just under the wire that way too.

the reason the stock roller lifters won't work in a non roller block with a stock base circle roller cam is that the lifter oiling hole is higher on the lifter than a stock flat tappet lifter and the lifter bores had to made taller so that oiling hole doesn't stick up out of the top of the lifter bore which will cause an instant depressurazation of the lifter and ultlimately the lifter will collapse. when the lifter collapses you will lose lift at the valve and probably get an annoying ticking sound from the valve train at a very minimum and more than likely permanent lifter and /or camshaft damage and even possibly damamge to other valvetrain components.


ford did not change the design of the block to accomodate the taller roller lifters just to be able to get more money from you, they did it because using the a roller lifter in a non roller block simply doesn't work right. i'd be willing to bet you're having problems with your setup (unless you are using a roller block) and don't even know it.....yet