Roller spring perches...

65fastbackresto

Active Member
Apr 13, 2007
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I know they somehow pivot or something, but exactly how do they help the handling of the car?

I have a fair amount of bumpsteer, I have to work the wheel a little driving down the road, I had it aligned, you would think they would have said something if something was wrong with the front end.

I do know my strut rod end rubber bushings look cracked, could that contribute to the problem?
 
what tommy said. stock rubber bushings bind badly, partly because the factory designed them that way. even poly bushings bind somewhat. roller bearings allow for virtually free movement through out the suspension travel.
 
If your car has "bump steer" meaning it hits a bump and turns on it's own accord, your car may or may not have "bump steer" which is a change in toe in setting as the car rises or shrinks through wheel travel.

If you car darts on bumpy surfaces your car likely doesn't have enough caster.
 
Thanks Guys

Maybe bumpsteer wasn`t the correct terminalogy. One of yall mentioned the toe changing as it goes thru its suspension travel, thats EXACTLY what it does. You hit a little sway in the road and you have to compensate for it in the steering.

Will the roller spring perch help with that? Or is it something else maybe?

It dont dart around on bumpy roads, but sometimes it sounds like its bottoming out when you hit a larger bump, and I know it shouldn`t be, it just sounds like somebody hit the wheel with a hammer.
 
The binding of the perch does not directly bind the suspension. The binding of the suspension is caused by the huge side loads transfered to the shock and causing the shock to bind. Many stock suspensions use coil springs that sit directly on the lower control arm. There is no perch to keep the lower and upper ends of the springs parallel and causes only a slight spring rate change but no bind.
 
bumpsteer is where the suspension geometry and the steering geometry is off a bit, and the lower control arm and the tie rod link move in different arcs. even with the stock suspension, bumpsteer isnt really a problem until you get to the last half of suspension travel. you need to change the angle at which the tie rod link sit compared to the lower control arm. there are bumpsteer correction kits on the market for the mustang. that said however, i wouldnt worry about bumpsteer unless and until you go racing with the car, unless the bumpsteer is severe, and then you have a serious problem.
 
i wouldnt worry about bumpsteer unless and until you go racing with the car, unless the bumpsteer is severe, and then you have a serious problem.

Believe it or not it is usually not that much of a problem at the track as the surface is usually fairly smooth without bumps (unless you visit Sebring). In addition when the early model is set up "loose" (rear wants to come around) you tend to do a lot of steering with the rear of the car.

Street driving is somewhat different and the bumpsteer comes into play.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com
 
65fastbackresto,

It sounds like you may have a couple of things going on.

First the roller spring perches are a great upgrade, but I don't think they are going to solve your problem.

If your strut rod bushings are cracked, I would replace them or better yet upgrade to one of the adjustable strut rods (Street or Track, Global West, TCP). The strut rods may be contributing to your problem, but I would expect strut rod issues to show up more under braking and turning, not tracking straight down the highway.

My guess is your alignment shop looked up the original alignment specifications. The stock alignment specifications were good for the bias ply tires of the day. Today’s new radial tires will accentuate the poor manners of the stock suspension's geometry.

The original stock alignment setting for '64 - '66 Mustangs are:
Caster: -0.5*
Camber: -0.5*
Toe-In: 9/32"

The Performance alignment settings are:
Caster: +1.5° to +2.5°
Camber: 0 to -.5°
Toe: 1/8"

The biggest difference being in the Caster setting. A positive Caster setting will help the car to track straighter and return to center more quickly after a corner. The easiest way to describe it would be to think of a bicycle and angle of the front wheel fork. If the fork that connects the handle bars to the front wheel were to be straight up and down (0 degrees Caster) you would constantly need to steer to keep the bike going in a straight line. Now if the front fork were installed at an angle (think chopper - Positive Caster), you could take your hands off of the handle bars and the bike would continue to track in a straight line.

So even if you have not done the "Shelby drop" modification, you will still benefit from an increase in Positive Caster in a street driven car. I would suggest at least 2 full degrees positive caster.

The other possible issue could be a bumpsteer issue, but this does not generally show up unless the front suspension is lowered and low profile tires are used. What are your front end components and tire sizes?

Post a little more information and I'm sure we can point you in the right direction.

Tim
 
Tim

Tire size is P215/50/R17. They look low profile to me, but not real low.

I posted another post asking people how to tell the diffence between 6 cyl and V-8 steering components, but I have no replys yet. I have scoured the shop manual but it doesn`t give specific sizes on the components and I dont know how to tell the difference yet.

The car doesn`t look lowered at all, and I have Meiyer racing 165 coil springs to be put on the front, with 1 inch isolators to put it back to normal height. I`m waiting to install them till I get more info as to other parts I may need, to avoid realigning the front end more then once. I was hoping the stiffer springs wouldn`t travel as much and fix maybe part of the problem.

Also got Meiyer 4 1/2 leafs for the back.

2BAV8 gave me a link to http://www.opentrackerracingproducts.com/
I was thinking of ordering parts there. Upper and lower control arms, adjustable strut rods with heim joint, and roller spring perches, along with the Shelby drop.

If your knowledgeable in this subject check out the website and let me know what you think of the parts there, I need some input, I`m a newbie, had the car for a month and I`ve never been a car guy before, but anxious to learn more.
 
The roller spring perch improves handling by allowing the base of the spring to remain level compared to the top of the spring throughout the articulation of the suspension. The stock perch is too stiff and so when you go over a bump, it essentially stays in the same orientation regardless of the angle of the upper arm. This means that the outside of the spring becomes much shorter than the inside when the upper arm moves up and down. This leads to variable spring rate (and not in a good, predictable way). The spring wants to become "c" or backwards "c"-shaped and causes the shock to bind (shocks work best up and down, without any sideways force on them), wearing it out prematurely, too.

When I changed out my old perches to roller perches, my old perches remained at an angle. I could only rotate them in a vise with considerable force. The suspension reaction is much better now, and the car handles much better than with the old perches. :D

As far as bump steer (which is caused by the lower control arm and the tie rod moving in different arcs, which pulls the toe in or out as the suspension moves up or down), the roller perches won't help any as you would still have the two arcs. You can get a bump steer kit from Pro-motorsports or Baer which will help, but you really need to measure the bump steer (or have a suspension shop do so) before throwing money at the problem. You may have other issues (like the strut rod bushings mentioned already) or other binding going on. All vintage Mustangs have some bump steer with the stock suspension, although the kits can minimize it some. Really stiff springs (like HistoricMustang uses) prevent the suspension from moving much and thus minimize bump steer. Like he says, this is fine on a smooth track but may not be so enjoyable on a rougher street environment.

Any time you take a compontent with a bushing that can bind in suspension travel and change it to a roller component, you free up that part to react in a more predictable, smooth way. You may find that you need a higher spring rate, though, as all the binding sites were helping to slow movement down! Opentracker stuff is excellent and he's a great guy/company to deal with, too! Ask him questions and he'll suggest the right things to you, even if it means you won't spend as much money with him.

Daniel
 
I do know my strut rod end rubber bushings look cracked, could that contribute to the problem?[/QUOTE]



This is where I'd start first. I tried to track down my "Bumpsteer" problems for over a year. When I hit an imperferction in the road the car would dart unpredictably. Following "trucker tracks" on the highway made me hold the steering wheel tighter than riding a roller coaster.

The tell tale sign for me was that my car would steer back and forth as I applied the gas or hit the brakes.

If those bushings are bad it causes the susp to move back and forth essentialy turning the tires for you.

If you can see cracks in them you need to change them anyways. Besides it's a cheap fix.
 
65fastbackresto,

You can't go wrong ordering parts from OpenTracker. John is very well respect in the Mustang community and I have never heard anything negative about him or his parts. I run some of his parts, also, including the roller spring perches.

Also, 2bav8 is very knowledgeable on performance suspension setups.

If you've got the money to swap out the entire front end at once, then go for it. Otherwise, I would start with new adjustable strut rods and the alignment suggested above. My guess is your shop used the original alignment settings, which will make your car wonder at high way speeds. Especially with your tires.

Tim
 
I know they somehow pivot or something, but exactly how do they help the handling of the car?

I have a fair amount of bumpsteer, I have to work the wheel a little driving down the road, I had it aligned, you would think they would have said something if something was wrong with the front end.

I do know my strut rod end rubber bushings look cracked, could that contribute to the problem?

Take a look at my Mustang handling page:

http://home.bresnan.net/~dazed/bump

this will make understanding "bump steer" a lot easier, and weither or not you actuly have bump steer issues it has good solid info on improving the handling of your car.
 
I had major wondering problems in my 73 stang and Global West strut rod bushings did the trick. The poly ones I bought before were allowing the strut rods to move around which was changing the angles at the wheels. It did it whether going straight or in a curve. Scary!
 
I just ordered rubber bushings for $18. Should I have got the poly ones?

I was just reading something the other day about this. It said the rubber ones were actually a little better since they allow the arm to move in its arc easier than the poly bushings, which cause binding. Personally, I think as long as everything is new and working like it should, the car should handle pretty well, even being totally stock.