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Runs Horrible When Cold

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cyawn
  • Start date Start date Oct 3, 2017
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Cyawn

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  • Oct 3, 2017
  • #1
I have a 88 gt. New parts are IAC, ACT, dist, tps and plugs and wires. I got this car a week and half ago. When I first got it, it would hesitate through out the rpm range but the problem was the distributor cause the drive gear was wore out and you couldn't get it in time. Fixed that problem and even before that when the car sits over night in the morning it will idle at 2,000 or fluctuate or when I push the clutch in it will die and plus it does the hesitation but 10x worse especially at quarter throttle. But when it gets warm it's perfectly fine. But now every time I start it up it idles funny or gets stuck at 2000 until i start driving it then it's fine.
 
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Cyawn

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Other new part I forgot is fuel filter, gas tank and fuel pump. Also car still has smog and egr. I can't get the car to pull any codes either using a jumper wire.
 

Slobin3d

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#3
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  • #3
Tps? Poor ground?
 

a91what

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Cyawn said:
Other new part I forgot is fuel filter, gas tank and fuel pump. Also car still has smog and egr. I can't get the car to pull any codes either using a jumper wire.
Click to expand...
If the car won't spit out codes that's not a good sign, however there are steps one must follow in order for the ecu to give codes.

Here is the info on how to pull codes.
jrichker said:




Dump the codes: Codes may be present even if the Check Engine Light (CEL) isn't on.

[SIZE=5][B]Dumping the computer diagnostic codes on 86-95 Mustangs[/B][/SIZE]

[COLOR=blue] Revised 26-July-2011. Added need to make sure the clutch is pressed when dumping codes. [/COLOR]

Codes may be present even if the check engine light hasn’t come on, so be sure to check for them.

Here's the way to dump the computer codes with only a jumper wire or paper clip and the check engine light, or test light or voltmeter. I’ve used it for years, and it works great. You watch the flashing test lamp or Check Engine Light and count the flashes.

Post the codes you get and I will post 86-93 model 5.0 Mustang specific code definitions and fixes. I do not have a complete listing for 94-95 model 5.0 Mustangs at this time.

[B]Be sure to turn off the A/C, and put the transmission in neutral when dumping the codes. On a manual transmission car, be sure to press the clutch to the floor. [/B]
Fail to do this and you will generate a code 67 and not be able to dump the Engine Running codes.

[ATTACH=full]560548[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=full]560549[/ATTACH]

If your car is an 86-88 stang, you'll have to use the test lamp or voltmeter method. There is no functional check engine light on the 86-88's except possibly the Cali Mass Air cars.

[ATTACH=full]560550[/ATTACH]The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.[/B]

89 through 95 cars have a working Check Engine light. Watch it instead of using a test lamp.

[ATTACH=full]549675[/ATTACH]

[B]The STI has a gray connector shell and a white/red wire. It comes from the same bundle of wires as the self test connector.[/B]


[COLOR=red][B][U]WARNING!!! [/U]There is a single dark brown connector with a black/orange wire. It is the 12 volt power to the under the hood light. Do not jumper it to the computer test connector. If you do, you will damage the computer.[/B][/COLOR]

[B]What to expect:[/B]
You should get a code 11 (two single flashes in succession). This says that the computer's internal workings are OK, and that the wiring to put the computer into diagnostic mode is good. No code 11 and you have some wiring problems. [B]This is crucial: the same wire that provides the ground to dump the codes provides signal ground for the TPS, EGR, ACT and Map/Baro sensors. If it fails, you will have poor performance, economy and driveablity problems[/B]

Some codes have different answers if the engine is running from the answers that it has when the engine isn't running. It helps a lot to know if you had the engine running when you ran the test.

[B]Dumping the Engine Running codes:[/B] The procedure is the same, you start the engine with the test jumper in place. Be sure the A/C is off, and clutch (if present) is pressed to the floor, and the transmission is in neutral. You'll get an 11, then a 4 and the engine will speed up to do the EGR test. After the engine speed decreases back to idle, it will dump the engine running codes.

Trouble codes are either 2 digit or 3 digit, there are no cars that use both 2 digit codes and 3 digit codes.

Your 86-88 5.0 won't have a working Check Engine Light, so you'll need a test light.
See AutoZone Part Number: 25886 , $10
[ATTACH=full]549676[/ATTACH]



[B]Alternate methods:[/B]
For those who are intimidated by all the wires & connections, see [URL='http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16153']Actron®[/URL] for what a typical hand scanner looks like. Normal retail price is about $30 or so at AutoZone or Wal-Mart.

Or for a nicer scanner see [URL='http://www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW']www.midwayautosupply.com/Equus-Digital-Ford-Code-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW[/URL] Equus - Digital Ford Code Reader 3145.
It has a 3 digit LCD display so that you don’t have to count flashes or beeps.. Cost is $22-$36.
[ATTACH=full]549671[/ATTACH]
Click to expand...
 
C

Cyawn

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#5
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #5
I'll have to check the ground but I know i have the tps set at .98
 

General karthief

wonder how much it would cost to ship you a pair
Mod Dude
Aug 25, 2016
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#6
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #6
Post #4 first diagnostic procedure
Possible your computer is bad but don't just throw money away changing parts without running through the diagnostic steps.
 

Noobz347

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#7
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #7
Cyawn said:
I'll have to check the ground but I know i have the tps set at .98
Click to expand...

This makes zero difference.
 
C

Cyawn

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Oct 3, 2017
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#8
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #8
I'll have to check the ground but I know i have the tps set at .98
a91what said:
If the car won't spit out codes that's not a good sign, however there are steps one must follow in order for the ecu to give codes.

Here is the info on how to pull codes.
Click to expand...
where exactly do I put the test lamp do it will flash?
 

a91what

SendMeUrDataLog
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#9
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #9
View attachment 560550 in the post I quoted above...... it's all in Technicolor.

But here you go.
https://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/attachments/560550/
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
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Oct 4, 2017
#10
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #10
Cyawn said:
Also car still has smog and egr. I can't get the car to pull any codes either using a jumper wire.
Click to expand...

'88's don't have a functional check engine light. The bulb is there, but it won't ever blink.

You need to use a test light to blink the codes, or buy the code reader.

Amazon product ASIN B000EW0KHWView: https://www.amazon.com/INNOVA-3145-Ford-Digital-Reader/dp/B000EW0KHW
 

Mustang5L5

That is…until I whipped out my Bissell
Mod Dude
Feb 18, 2001
43,275
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Oct 4, 2017
#11
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #11
Cyawn said:
I'll have to check the ground but I know i have the tps set at .98
Click to expand...

TPS voltage doesn't matter at all despite what FB says. It's non adjustable and has a range of anywhere from 0.5-1.19volts as being acceptable.
 

Dan02gt

mazing how much gas smell came from that tiny hole
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Oct 4, 2017
#12
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #12
A couple of things you could check:

ECT sensor The idle surge check list has the resistance values you need to test for.
O2 Sensors They are cheap, wear out, and can cause all sorts of issues.
Vacuum Leaks Check everything over really good including the PCV system and the emissions lines
Test the MAP sensor.
 
C

Cyawn

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#13
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  • #13
Alright when I get off work today I'll check the ground and see if I can get codes out of it. It didn't act up near as bad today as it usually does. But I also noticed today if the ac is off then it's almost normal but as soon as I turn it on it goes to hesitating and sputtering.
 
C

Cyawn

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Dan02gt said:
A couple of things you could check:

ECT sensor The idle surge check list has the resistance values you need to test for.
O2 Sensors They are cheap, wear out, and can cause all sorts of issues.
Vacuum Leaks Check everything over really good including the PCV system and the emissions lines
Test the MAP sensor.
Click to expand...
I checked for vacuum leaks the other day with a smoke test. Found one and fixed it. The o2 are probably really old. Pcv is good I did check that but I'll also check the ECT
 
C

Cyawn

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#15
  • Oct 4, 2017
  • #15
I got code 18 and 54
 
C

Cyawn

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I check etc and it was .85 and it was right according to that chart but my act was 4.8. And degrees was somewhere around 170. Tps had ground.
 

jrichker

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Cyawn said:
I check etc and it was .85 and it was right according to that chart but my act was 4.8. And degrees was somewhere around 170. Tps had ground.
Click to expand...
Code 18 - SPOUT out or wiring fault - look for short to ground in SPOUT wiring going
back to the computer. Possible bad TFI or defective 22 K resistor in the IDM wiring

Use a timing light to check the timing: remove the SPOUT and observe that the timing retards at least 4 degrees. Put the SPOUT back in place and observe that the spark advances at least 4 degrees.
This code can disable spark advance and reduce power and fuel economy.

Remove the passenger side kick panel and disconnect the computer connector.
There is a 10 MM bolt that holds it in place.
Disconnect the TFI module connector from the TFI and the measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire and ground.
You should see greater than 100 K (100000) ohms.
Check the resistance from Pin 4 on the computer connector (dark green/yellow) and the dark green/yellow wire on the TFI connector. You should see 20-24 K Ohms (20,000-24,0000 ohms).


Resistor location: A big thanks to liljoe07 for this information:

liljoe07 said:
Check over by the brake booster. Its not in the harness on the TFI, its on the main part of the harness over by the plugs that connect to the dash harness. About 6" or so from that, going back toward the EEC.

If I remember right, the resistor is covered in a shrink tubing that is sealed to the wires. So, you wont be able see any markings. The shrink tubing is labeled though. It's a 22kohm 1/2 watt resistor.

Here is the location.
Click to expand...



Next measure the resistance between the yellow/lt green wire on the TFI module connector and Pin 36 on the computer connector. With the SPOUT plug in place, you should see less than 2 ohms.

The following is a view from the computer side of the computer connector.


This diagram is the wire side of the computer connector.


Diagram courtesy of Tmoss & Stang&2birds

 
C

Cyawn

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#18
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  • #18
The spout does what it's suppose to do. But I'll still check what you just gave me. Now I notice the car idle just fluctuates from
About 700 to 1200 but if I turn the ac on it just stays at 900 and is steady
 

Blown88GT

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#19
  • Oct 6, 2017
  • #19
Cyawn said:
The spout does what it's suppose to do. But I'll still check what you just gave me. Now I notice the car idle just fluctuates from
About 700 to 1200 but if I turn the ac on it just stays at 900 and is steady
Click to expand...
TB idle screw is probably just a little bit low. After engine is warmed up, disconnect IAC & set idle screw to desired idle. Then reconnected IAC.
 

jrichker

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Blown88GT said:
TB idle screw is probably just a little bit low. After engine is warmed up, disconnect IAC & set idle screw to desired idle. Then reconnected IAC.
Click to expand...

That's the wrong way to set the idle. The computer is supposed to control the idle, the throttle stop screw is just to provide a starting point for the computer to work from. Set the base idle with the throttle stop screw and the cylinder balance is likely to fail with random cylinders. That may also set codes 12 (idle too low) and 13 (idle too high).

Code 12 -Idle Air Bypass motor not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) - IAB dirty or not working. Clean the electrical contacts with non flammable brake parts cleaner at the same time.

IAC doesn't work: look for +12 volts at the IAC red wire. Then check for continuity between the white/lt blue wire and pin 21 on the computer. The IAC connector contacts will sometimes corrode and make the IAC not work. The red wire on the IAC is always hot with the engine in run mode. The computer provides a ground for the current for the IAC. It switches the ground on and off, making a square wave with a varying duty cycle. A normal square wave would be on for 50% of the time and off for 50% of the time. When the idle speed is low, the duty cycle increases more than 50% to open the IAC more. When the engine speed is high, it decreases the duty cycle to less than 50% to close the IAC. An old-fashioned dwell meter can be used to check the change: I haven’t tried it personally, but it should work. In theory, it should read ½ scale of whatever range you set it on with a 50% duty cycle. An Oscilloscope is even better if you can find someone who has one and will help.



Recommended procedure for cleaning the IAC/IAB:
Conventional cleaning methods like throttle body cleaner aren’t very effective. The best method is a soak type cleaner used for carburetors. If you are into fixing motorcycles, jet skis, snowmobiles or anything else with a small carburetor, you probably have used the one gallon soak cleaners like Gunk or Berryman. One of the two should be available at your local auto parts store for $22-$29. Take the solenoid off the body and set it aside: the carb cleaner will damage some types of plastic parts. Soak the metal body in the carb cleaner overnight. There is a basket to set the parts in while they are soaking. When you finish soaking overnight, twist the stem of the IAB/IAC that sticks out while the blocker valve is seated. This removes any leftover deposits from the blocker valve seat. Rinse the part off with water and blow it dry with compressed air. The IAC/IAB should seal up nicely now. Once it has dried, try blowing through the bottom hole and it should block the air flow. Reassemble and reinstall to check it out.

Gunk Dip type carb & parts soaker:



Setting the base idle speed:
First of all, the idle needs to be adjusted to where the speed is at or below 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected. If you have a wild cam, you may have to raise this figure 100-150 RPM or so. Then the electrical signal through the IAC can vary the airflow through it under computer control. Remember that the IAC can only add air to increase the base idle speed set by the mechanical adjustment. The 600 RPM base idle speed is what you have after the mechanical adjustment. The IAC increases that speed by supplying more air under computer control to raise the RPM’s to 650-725 RPM’s. This figure will increase if you have a wild cam, and may end up between 800-950 RPM

Remember that changing the mechanical idle speed adjustment changes the TPS setting too.

This isn't the method Ford uses, but it does work. Do not attempt to set the idle speed until you have fixed all the codes and are sure that there are no vacuum leaks.

Disconnect the battery negative terminal and turn the headlights on. Leave the battery negative terminal disconnected for 5 minutes or so. Then turn the headlights off and reconnect the battery. This erases the computer settings that may affect idle performance.

Warm the engine up to operating temperature, place the transmission in neutral, and set the parking brake. Turn off lights, A/C, all unnecessary electrical loads. Disconnect the IAC electrical connector. Remove the SPOUT plug. This will lock the ignition timing so that the computer won't change the spark advance, which changes the idle speed. Note the engine RPM: use the mechanical adjustment screw under the throttle body to raise or lower the RPM until you get the 600 RPM mark +/- 25 RPM. A wild cam may make it necessary to increase the 600 RPM figure to 700 RPM or possibly a little more to get a stable idle speed.

Changing the mechanical adjustment changes the TPS, so you will need to set it.

When you are satisfied with the results, turn off the engine, and re-install the SPOUT and reconnect the IAC. The engine should idle with the range of 650-750 RPM without the A/C on or extra electrical loads. A wild cam may make this figure somewhat higher.

An engine that whose idle speed cannot be set at 600 RPM with the IAC disconnected has mechanical problems. Vacuum leaks are the #1 suspect in this case. A vacuum gauge will help pinpoint both vacuum leaks and improperly adjusted valves. A sticking valve or one adjusted too tight will cause low vacuum and a 5"-8" sweep every time the bad cylinder comes up on compression stroke. An extreme cam can make the 600 RPM set point difficult to set. Contact your cam supplier or manufacturer to get information on idle speed and quality
.
 
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