s/c

302fordracer · Aug 29, 2010

What is the best s/c kit to go with for a street car? I am thinking easy installation, good fitment, reliability and inexpensive (as far as s/c kits go lol). I am only wanting maybe 8-10 lbs. Something very safe that can be street driven for many thousands of miles..??

txredgt · Aug 30, 2010

The 'cheapest' setup I do believe is the Vortech, maybe some other kits might be a bit cheaper but to me, this would be what I would consider the lowest priced kit. After that a procharger might be the best bang for the buck and what I have thought about putting on when I get to that point. 8-10 psi with an intercooler is a huge deal for a street/daily driver or at least in the south. After that its tork tech and kenne bell territory. As far as costs, I was told the procharger kit installed and tuned was a touch above 5 grand. Kenne bell's are 5 grand before the install and tune. Another and possibly even bigger issue than the S/C is what else has to be done when you go to forced induction such as the fuel system and tune. I would think if you install it yourself and only outsource the tune your easily in the neighborhood of 5 grand for the vortech and only goes up from there. Other people who have these setups should chime in but that's the bare minimum I would expect to spend.

wmburns · Aug 30, 2010

302fordracer said:
What is the best s/c kit to go with for a street car? I am thinking easy installation, good fitment, reliability and inexpensive (as far as s/c kits go lol). I am only wanting maybe 8-10 lbs. Something very safe that can be street driven for many thousands of miles..??

If we assume that the order of the characteristics are important, then choosing a COMPLETE and well engineered kit should be of first concern.

If $$ were first on the list, the price obviously should play a more important role.

IMO, if you are looking for a complete, well engineered, reliable, and able to be installed by the DIY'er, then the Kenne Bell (KB) is hard to ignore.

Other kits from Tork Tech, Edelbrook, Roush, and Steeda bear looking at. However, one may find some of these kits slightly more expensive than the KB (or not as complete).

IMO, this is where I think many ppl miss the mark. They do not start their project with a clear set of GOALS. They do not catalog their RESOURCES. And finally, they do not have a realistic PLAN to achieve their goals.

For example, we have all seen posts where someone says, "I have a v6. What's the best way to make 500 reliable streetable HP? I have about 1K to spend and I am not very good with a wrench". We could get into a huge discussion about the merits of a case like this. But I think the chances are success for this example (not a hypothetical post) are very low.

Goals. What are your goals in terms of HP, reliability, and streetability? How much of the work do you want to do yourself? How do you plan on using the car?

Resources: Budget, time, and knowledge are all examples of resources. An honest assessment can make the difference between a successful outcome and a failed project.

Hope this helps.

Dark04GT · Aug 30, 2010

wmburns said:
If we assume that the order of the charactistics are important, then choosing a COMPLETE and well engineered kit should be of first concern.

If $$ were first on the list, the price obviously should play a more important role.

IMO, if you are looking for a complete, well enginereed, reliable, and able to be installed by the DIY'er, then the Kenne Bell (KB) is hard to ignore.

Other kits from Tork Tech, Edelbrook, Roush, and Steeda bear looking at. However, one may find these kits slightly more expensive than the KB.

IMO, this is where I think many ppl miss the mark. They do not start their project with a clear set of GOALS. They do not catalog their RESOURCES. And finally, they do not have a realistic PLAN to achive their goals.

For example, we have all seen posts where someone says, "I have a v6. What's the best way to make 500 reliable streetable HP? I have about 1K to spend and I am not very good with a wrench". We could get into a huge discussion about the merits of a case like this. But I think the chances are sucess for this example (not a hypothetical post) are very low.

Goals. What are your goals in terms of HP, reliability, and streetability? How much of the work do you want to do yourself?

Resources: Budget, time, and knowledge are all examples of resources. An honest assestment can make the difference between a sucessful out come and a failed project.

Hope this helps.

+1, I think we could copy-paste this post into about 95% of initial supercharger question threads.

OP- we need more details on your goals, your budget, your wrench skills

302fordracer · Aug 30, 2010

yes those are helpful responses, and I know this topic has been touched on before, I would normally have searched the previous posts but I was browsing via my cell phone at the time so forgive the repost...
My goals, 375-400 rwhp, something I can use street tires with without having difficulty driving on the street, not sure on the budget max at this point, my wrenching skills are mediocre, so I'd need help with just about every aspect, and not having to deal with constantly blowing head gaskets or idle issues or engine rebuilds is pretty much top priority. My car has 60k on the clock and I'd love to see it live past 150K without too much difficulty..

wmburns · Aug 30, 2010

KB intercooled kit. Complete TS-1000-99-INT intercooled $4,999.99.

'96-'04 Mustang 4.6 2V 2.1L Supercharger

price list:

http://www.kennebell.net/pricelist/PriceList.pdf

Here's the trick. Try to avoid adding anything "special" beyond what is included in the kit. Use the engineering and packaging included within the kit. While there are those that will will disagree, about 400 RWHP is a reasonable sustainable limit for a stock bottom end.

For the goals mentioned, IMO, it would be hard to beat the KB kit. Think about it.

To stay on street tires, stick with the stock rear end. Let the torque provided by the supercharger work for you. This also helps control budget creep.

302fordracer · Sep 1, 2010

Is it possible to make this kind of power or close to it (350 rwhp+) N/A with these engines (sorry I have been a 5.0 guy for a long time not very familiar with the mod motor). If so, building off of the setup I already have, what are your reccomendations?

trinity_gt · Sep 1, 2010

Just put nitrous on it for "on demand" power if you're balking at the kind of money it takes to go with a blower.

Dark04GT · Sep 1, 2010

302fordracer said:
Is it possible to make this kind of power or close to it (350 rwhp+) N/A with these engines (sorry I have been a 5.0 guy for a long time not very familiar with the mod motor). If so, building off of the setup I already have, what are your reccomendations?

The most people typically make with a fully built 2v is typically ~330rwhp. Take in mind that is with aggressive cams, trick flow heads / equivalent, and full bolt-ons.

The kenne bell kit is one of the more expensive kits. If price is the issue than look at tork tech, should be ~$500 cheaper. Or look towards vortech or procharger. Their base kits are probably the cheapest around for FI making ~350-400 hp.

Or you could just buy a nitrous kit and call it a day.

wmburns · Sep 1, 2010

Dark04GT said:
The kenne bell kit is one of the more expensive kits. If price is the issue than look at tork tech, should be ~$500 cheaper. Or look towards vortech or procharger. Their base kits are probably the cheapest around for FI making ~350-400 hp.

Or you could just buy a nitrous kit and call it a day.

IMO, this is were doing some home work can make a difference. The TorkTech is a good kit. But look at what is NOT included:

>>From TorkTech web site.
With this kit the customer or installation shop is to provide their own air filter, fuel injectors, MAFS & adapter, computer tune, harmonic balancer and fuel pump. Tork Tech does offer all these items individually if you already have some, but not all of these items.
<<

What do you think? More than $500?? Perhaps the KB isn't more expensive after all.

As for the N/A options. Go back to your goals and resources. You stated that you wanted reliability and your wrenching skills are weak.

Big cams, long tube headers, under drive pulleys, cold air kits, cat back exhaust, after market heads, after market TB's, rear-end gears, custom tune, and dyno pulls will most likely be needed to reach your goal. But consider how much wrenching will be required. Further, there will be some trade off with street performance (driveability). After all, there is no "free lunch".

The total cost of such an N/A package may surprise you.

Note, the fist post listed 400 HP as a goal. Lowering the goal as you have drops the requirement for an intercooler. A $1200 difference in cost of the KB kit.

OBTW, the intercooler could be added at a later time.

Many ppl will agree that the 4.6 Modular motor responds very well to forced induction.

Bottom line, do your homework. Determine what you really want and then go for it. Good luck.

trinity_gt · Sep 1, 2010

wmburns said:
... OBTW, the intercooler could be added at a later time. ...

Adding an intercooler (well, technically it's an aftercooler...) to a Roots or twin-screw (etc) setup is not easy nor cheap task since the cooler is integrated into the lower manifold assembly. Swapping that and adding the heat exchanger, plumbing, reservoir and pump wouldn't come cheap.

IMO if one has his sights set on more than 350rwHP and/or more than 6 pounds of boost I would default and spend the bux up front for an intercooled setup.

StratGT · Sep 1, 2010

The overall price depends on where you buy the kit. I wanted a KB but they would not sell me one unless the authorized dealer installs it for an additional $1500 minimum. Plus some of the upgrades for the KB made me look elsewhere. I personally like the Tork Tech Kit since I'm a big fan of torque. The TT kit comes with everything you need (I believe the post above was for the Tuner Kit).

I have the Allen kit (AED) with 9psi running through an automatic and 3.73 gears. I've gone 12.19 on stock rims with stock suspension. In the future I will most likely buy the TT tuner kit since I have all the additional parts already on my car.

If your looking to rebuild your motor for more power, people are making some damm good power going NA with the TFS heads/ cams/ intake...some of there numbers may surprise you.

wmburns · Sep 1, 2010

StratGT said:
The overall price depends on where you buy the kit. I wanted a KB but they would not sell me one unless the authorized dealer installs it for an additional $1500 minimum.

Just wondering if that was because you are from Canada?

I was wondering because the KB web site goes to great lengths to point out they sell direct. Cut out the middle man and so on. KB markets their kits as a DIY weekend install project.

The WEB site also states they have authorized dealers to do the install should you not want to do the work yourself.

However, this provides additional justification for the original point. Do your homework. Understand what is being purchased.

hotstang_46 · Sep 1, 2010

Why no one has not steered you to a centri is beyond me. I haven't checked prices in some time but I'd bet you could pick up a sweet vortech, paxton or the like in the low 3 grand range if you look around. And, with something like that it wouldn't take much to build more power. You could easily add meth and do a pulley change and push 13psi or so on the stock internals and make some really really nice power. Costing you maybe an additional $350 if you decided you wanted more some day.

wmburns · Sep 1, 2010

hotstang_46 said:
I haven't checked prices in some time but I'd bet you could pick up a sweet vortech, paxton or the like in the low 3 grand range if you look around.

IMO, Vortech is a nice option. Please don't get me wrong. It is not my intention to bash.

To compare offerings, we need to look at COMPLETE kits that reach the 400 HP goal of the OP.

>>From the Vortech WEB site:
2000-2004 Mustang GT 4.6L 2V, V-3 Si-Trim, Complete System, High Output, Satin
Part Number: 4FL218-140L
Shipping Weight: 85.00 lbs.
Price: $5180.95

Stock 260 HP 302 lb/ft
Vortech Std 364 HP* 371 lb/ft*
Vortech HO 402 HP* 400 lb/ft*
<<

In terms of HP, the Vortech and KB-intercooled are nearly equal. There are operational differences as well as differences in the torque curves but that is really beyond the topic at hand.

But in comparison of the complete kit prices, Vortech is actually more than KB by $180.

However, for a 5k project, the difference of $180 is not really that much. If this were my project, I would not let $180 dollars decide the outcome.

RedDaemon · Sep 1, 2010

wmburns said:
Stock 260 HP 302 lb/ft
Vortech Std 364 HP* 371 lb/ft*
Vortech HO 402 HP* 400 lb/ft*
<<

nm.

bakos24 · Sep 1, 2010

wmburns said:
IMO, this is were doing some home work can make a difference. The TorkTech is a good kit. But look at what is NOT included:

>>From TorkTech web site.
With this kit the customer or installation shop is to provide their own air filter, fuel injectors, MAFS & adapter, computer tune, harmonic balancer and fuel pump. Tork Tech does offer all these items individually if you already have some, but not all of these items.
<<

What do you think? More than $500?? Perhaps the KB isn't more expensive after all.
.

I do not see this on there site......, if it is, it is probably there Terminator kits, which uses the cobra blowers, and yes, you do need to buy some extra items to complete the install.

There complete M112 kits come with everything you need. This was two years ago, I'm sure both companies prices went up but you can see that Tork Tech is/was the cheaper option comparing them side by side.

http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/7557374-post12.html

I'm making 417 on a safe tune, about 10lbs boost. It pretty much all boils down to

1. How much you willing to spend on a kit
2. Centri(Vortech, Paxton)Usually cheaper) or Roots style(KB, Tork Tech)

trinity_gt · Sep 1, 2010

bakos24 said:
1. How much you willing to spend on a kit
2. Centri(Vortech, Paxton)Usually cheaper) or Roots style(KB, Tork Tech)

Just to clarify, the KB is a twin-screw. Externally it looks a bit like a Roots and has a similar external topology (e.g. two rotors, sits in/on the V) but it ain't Roots.

Perhaps a better term would have been "positive displacement" instead of "Roots"

hotstang_46 · Sep 1, 2010

wmburns said:
IMO, Vortech is a nice option. Please don't get me wrong. It is not my intention to bash.

To compare offerings, we need to look at COMPLETE kits that reach the 400 HP goal of the OP.

>>From the Vortech WEB site:
2000-2004 Mustang GT 4.6L 2V, V-3 Si-Trim, Complete System, High Output, Satin
Part Number: 4FL218-140L
Shipping Weight: 85.00 lbs.
Price: $5180.95

Stock 260 HP 302 lb/ft
Vortech Std 364 HP* 371 lb/ft*
Vortech HO 402 HP* 400 lb/ft*
<<

In terms of HP, the Vortech and KB-intercooled are nearly equal. There are operational differences but that is really beyond the topic at hand.

But in comparison of the complete kit prices, Vortech is actually more than KB by $180.

However, for a 5k project, the difference of $180 is not really that much. If this were my project, I would not let $180 dollars decide the outcome.

No offense taken..but Dude, r u serious???? his goal was 375-400. He has a few minor mods already and so I will reiterate that a base base centri kit will get him there. Why in the world if money is tight for him would he spend darn near 2grand more for the KB? What your proposing makes 0 sense. and please don't take offense to that as I'm not attacking you either but it just doesn't seem money savvy when this will get him to his goal. And I also said in my post add a $300 meth kit, up the boost and he'll be making some serious power, even furthermore, depending where he lives if e85 is available you can throw that in and really look out.

I looked for 2 seconds, here's a vortech kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/VORT...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item255c1ec50e

Seems like a no brainer for a money concious build

Rejekt · Sep 1, 2010

Mongoose kit...

Contact Tim at Mr. Norm's Garage | Welcome and have him send you some literature / pricing info about the mongoose kits.

Unfortunately Modular Powerhouse has merged with Mr Norms but Tim is working on getting the Mustang stuff on the site and is still offering his kits.

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