safe to run VT stage 1 cams with stock springs?

mdvaldosta · Jun 22, 2004

Just wondering. I know they should be changed to be safe, but I don't wanna do it. I feel ok not changing them, just wanted some opinions.

007 · Jun 22, 2004

They are fine with stock springs.

cltgt · Jun 22, 2004

I don't know what the lift is on those cams, but you would be better off changing them before something bad happens. Stock springs may eventually suffer from coil bind at high rpm's due to lift and added duration. JMHO, but call VT Engines and see what they say. Better safe than sorry.

cadde300 · Jun 23, 2004

VT has answered this question many times, springs aren't needed for the stage one cams. But if it were me and I had a motor with a few miles on it i.e.- 50k+, then I would change my springs but other than that I wouldn't change them unless I went with the stage II's

pony_vert02 · Jun 23, 2004

i remember reading an exhaustingly long thread on modulardepot about this issue..bottom line.. stage I cams will work fine with stock springs.. and in some cases, stage II's do too... some guys changed the springs after installing the stage II's and encountered problems with ticking, clearance etc.. they reinstalled the stock springs and it went away..they suggested that maybe the newer springs were too stiff and wasn't compressing enough or something like that.. don't take it as gospel, search modulardepot, you'll prolly find it as well..

Ryan02Stang · Jun 23, 2004

I personally would change them, they are only $180. But it is NOT needed!

cadde300 · Jun 23, 2004

if you are doing it yourself the cams aren't that bad from what I hear, it is the springs that are the pita. Depends on what you are comfortable with....there is no benefit really to change the spring with stage I cams...just my .02

mdvaldosta · Jun 23, 2004

Thats my philosophy as well. Its not the cost of the springs, its the fact that its gonna take all friggen day to change the springs when its gonna take just a couple hours doing the cams.

Also, Bill Putnam was said to have gotten 22 rwhp from stage 1's and he changed the springs, and another guy showed 33 rwhp and he didn't change them. Now it could be alot of other factors like mileage on Bill's car etc., but I think that putting stiffer springs would rob some hp.

I KNOW I will be safe spinning to 6k, but looking at the powerband of the cams it appears it would be best to shift at between 6300 - 6500 rpm. Kinda scary on stock springs, thats my biggest concern.

I've looked on Modular Depot for a thread relating to this by the way, but to no avail.

Rocketman · Jun 23, 2004

According to the SHM 4.6 book, you are safe with stock springs ( PI head ) up to .550 of gross lift. So, as long as your cam specs don't exceed that amount of lift, you will be OK.

Purebred · Jun 23, 2004

Rocketman said:
According to the SHM 4.6 book, you are safe with stock springs ( PI head ) up to .550 of gross lift. So, as long as your cam specs don't exceed that amount of lift, you will be OK.

Where can I get that book??

Rocketman · Jun 23, 2004

Purebred said:
Where can I get that book??

Got mine at Barnes and Noble. You can also order it from SHM

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/

inferno9898 · Jun 23, 2004

i got mine from amazon.com. great read.

Purebred · Jun 23, 2004

Thanks, guys

mpcv2000 · Jun 23, 2004

Rocketman said:
Got mine at Barnes and Noble. You can also order it from SHM

http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/

I have one too and it's very interesting reading !

I even asked Sean to sign it !

Mustang92 · Jun 24, 2004

mdvaldosta said:
Thats my philosophy as well. Its not the cost of the springs, its the fact that its gonna take all friggen day to change the springs when its gonna take just a couple hours doing the cams.

Also, Bill Putnam was said to have gotten 22 rwhp from stage 1's and he changed the springs, and another guy showed 33 rwhp and he didn't change them. Now it could be alot of other factors like mileage on Bill's car etc., but I think that putting stiffer springs would rob some hp.

I KNOW I will be safe spinning to 6k, but looking at the powerband of the cams it appears it would be best to shift at between 6300 - 6500 rpm. Kinda scary on stock springs, thats my biggest concern.

I've looked on Modular Depot for a thread relating to this by the way, but to no avail.

There are plenty of factors that could lead to the reason why I didn't gain as much as someone else. You always have to keep in mind that mods work together and just because one person picks up X amount of power it doesn't mean that everyone will see the same gain. With no mods I might have seen 33RWHP and the guy that picked up 33RWHP might not have seen that much if he had more mods such as my car.

Also the springs although stronger are not stiff enough to actually cause any power losses. Certainly not 11RWHP. If you look at the springs they are basically identical to stock except are slightly longer...thus being able to handle slightly more lift. My main reasoning for going with new springs were due to high mileage 100+ at the time and the power band moving up higher due to more duration. I knew my shift points would be in the 6500 RPM range and I wanted to ensure no valve float or failure due to RPM on such a high mileage motor. So far at 111,900 mile motor and 6700 RPM shift points, 6600 RPM launch point no problems.

My suggestion is find someone local that can help you with the job and is familiar with installing springs then plan it over a weekend where you can work on it a few hours each day without wearing yourself completely out or getting overly frustrated with the job. With the right help the entire job can be knocked out in 7-10 hours.

Bill

VatStang · Jun 24, 2004

Just to be safe, if you're over 50K, then get stock replacement springs. Yeah, don't tear into that $3500 engine unless you have a knowledgeable hand with you. Good luck though.

mdvaldosta · Jun 24, 2004

I am a knowledgable hand. I expected if Bill posted he would "recommend" a spring change. I really wanted to hear from people with experience running the stock springs - or knew people that did. In particular Im wondering about possible valve floating over 6k.

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Mustang Forums

Mustang92 · Jun 25, 2004

mdvaldosta said:
I am a knowledgable hand. I expected if Bill posted he would "recommend" a spring change. I really wanted to hear from people with experience running the stock springs - or knew people that did. In particular Im wondering about possible valve floating over 6k.

I think it's a bit early in the game to see results from people with the stage 1s and stock springs. I don't know of many that have gone that route yet. If I had a lower mileage motor and a daily driver aside from the Mustang then I would have tried it on stock springs. However as it was at the time of the install I needed the car for going to work so I didn't take any chances.

By knowledgable hand I think VatStang is referring to someone that has done the cams/springs install already. I consider myself a knowledgeable hand in general but at the time I certainly wasn't knowledgeable about the cams and springs install. I was lucky enough to have some good friends that have gone through it many times to help me out with the tricky parts.

Bill

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