Saleen Blower Oil Cooler?

[cbanakis]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, and I hope I can get some feedback.

I have an 01 GT with a Saleen Series 4 supercharger.

I just got an oil filter relocation kit, and an oil cooler.

The Saleen runs pretty hot.

The supercharger oil is self contained, but there is a fill plug on top of the supercharger, and a drain plug on the side.

I was thinking of looping the supercharger into the mix.

Something like...
Engine to oil filter, to oil cooler, to supercharger top plug, and back to engine from side plug.

Is this a stupid idea?

Is there any benefit?

Worth $30 extra for another few feet of 10AN hose and a couple fittings?

Or would it be better to have an isolated oil cooler for the supercharger alone powered by an electric pump?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Even if its just to call me a moron for thinking this way.

Thanks

 

[Noobz347]

No.

There is no oil circulation system within that super charger, to speak of. It's an Oil-Bath.

Installing an in-line cooler won't gain you anything.

Just ensure that you're using the correct specification oil and spend a little extra on a full synthetic like Red-Line or Royal Purple.


When you say that the "Saleen runs hot"; what does that mean?

 

[cbanakis]

No.

There is no oil circulation system within that super charger, to speak of. It's an Oil-Bath.

Installing an in-line cooler won't gain you anything.

Just ensure that you're using the correct specification oil and spend a little extra on a full synthetic like Red-Line or Royal Purple.


When you say that the "Saleen runs hot"; what does that mean?

Thanks for the response.

I know there is no circulation.

I was hoping to create some, in order to lower intake air temperature.

The Saleen blower gets heat soaked really fast.

From what I've read, the intercooler is garbage.

There is an aftermarket one out there that is supposed to be way better.

It's on the list, but I was considering this in addition.

Another concern about the heat...

I read in another forum about speeding up that blower beyond the smaller pulley by putting an overdrive crank pulley.

Guy did it, and said he actually lost power cause it ran so hot at higher rpms.
So I was thinking this, and an upgraded intercooler, and maybe I could get more out of this blower.

I have a built engine, so it can definitely handle as much boost as I can give it.

 

[Noobz347]

Thanks for the response.

I know there is no circulation.

I was hoping to create some, in order to lower intake air temperature.

The Saleen blower gets heat soaked really fast.

From what I've read, the intercooler is garbage.

There is an aftermarket one out there that is supposed to be way better.

It's on the list, but I was considering this in addition.

Another concern about the heat...

I read in another forum about speeding up that blower beyond the smaller pulley by putting an overdrive crank pulley.

Guy did it, and said he actually lost power cause it ran so hot at higher rpms.
So I was thinking this, and an upgraded intercooler, and maybe I could get more out of this blower.

I have a built engine, so it can definitely handle as much boost as I can give it.

No amount of cooling is going to change the efficiency range of the impeller and blower housing. Once you get the impeller spinning outside of its efficiency range, the temperature rises exponentially. More temp means higher cooling demands, higher detonation potential, and lower set timing. You end up in a situation where the modifications necessary to make it run well, are worth more HP than the additional boost outside of the efficiency range.

My advise would be purchase the upgraded cooler and ADD more timing and perhaps a higher grade of gas. You might also benefit from a tune, it's hard to say. What is a "built engine" to you?




Maybe look at ways to reduce intake restrictions --or-- upgrade the blower.

 

[cbanakis]

No amount of cooling is going to change the efficiency range of the impeller and blower housing. Once you get the impeller spinning outside of its efficiency range, the temperature rises exponentially. More temp means higher cooling demands, higher detonation potential, and lower set timing. You end up in a situation where the modifications necessary to make it run well, are worth more HP than the additional boost outside of the efficiency range.

My advise would be purchase the upgraded cooler and ADD more timing and perhaps a higher grade of gas. You might also benefit from a tune, it's hard to say. What is a "built engine" to you?




Maybe look at ways to reduce intake restrictions --or-- upgrade the blower.

Makes sense.

Thank you very much for the advise.

Just figured it would be worth looking into, cause at this point it would be easy, and affordable.

My definition of a built engine is....

An aluminum Teksid 4.6 block,
and this, with all the bells and whistles.
http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=362

Still need better heads, fuel pump. Injectors and a better trans.

And now maybe a new supercharger.

Do you think there is anything else I can do to make this supercharger worth keeping in the long run?

I'm planning (hoping) to get into the tripple digit horsepower range.

It's not gonna be cheap, but I think I'm on the right path.

Other than the fact that this blower probably isn't gonna meet my needs in the end.

 

[Noobz347]

Makes sense.

Thank you very much for the advise.

Just figured it would be worth looking into, cause at this point it would be easy, and affordable.

My definition of a built engine is....

An aluminum Teksid 4.6 block,
and this, with all the bells and whistles.
http://www.modularmotorsportsracing.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=362

Still need better heads, fuel pump. Injectors and a better trans.

And now maybe a new supercharger.

Do you think there is anything else I can do to make this supercharger worth keeping in the long run?

I'm planning (hoping) to get into the tripple digit horsepower range.

It's not gonna be cheap, but I think I'm on the right path.

Other than the fact that this blower probably isn't gonna meet my needs in the end.

I think your best bet if you like the way that blower responds, would be to start getting the groundwork out of the way (i.e. those parts you know you're going to swap anyway) then pull the trigger on the blower last. Maybe look into a larger Whipple or KenneBell.

 

[Noobz347]

What power range are you in now, double digit?

 

[cbanakis]

What power range are you in now, double digit?

~425hp at the rear wheels

My way of thinking is...

Ported Trick Flow heads
LOTS of fuel
and setting my redline at ~8,000rpms will probably get a ton more out of the engine.
(I already have long tubes and a cat back)

But I'm pretty sure this blower is going to become a bottleneck at some point.

Hoping to get up to at least 900hp, but over 1,000hp would be a nice milestone.

 

[Noobz347]

You have pics of the current setup and build?

 

[LaserSVT]

Get rid of the blower, swap to 4V heads, turbo car, get tripple fuel pumps and large injsctors, large FMIC. Call it a day. And unless you have really really great rods and pistons you wont touch 1K HP and have the engine live to tell about it. Teksid is a spectacular block but the 2V heads are a restriction and PD blowers can only do so much.

 

[cbanakis]

Get rid of the blower, swap to 4V heads, turbo car, get tripple fuel pumps and large injsctors, large FMIC. Call it a day. And unless you have really really great rods and pistons you wont touch 1K HP and have the engine live to tell about it. Teksid is a spectacular block but the 2V heads are a restriction and PD blowers can only do so much.

My rods crank, and pistons are rated for 1500hp.

You are definitely not the first person to tell me to switch to 4v.
Definitely been giving it thought, but if I do, I'll be burning the money I spent on LT headers, and the blower. (Though the blower is probably burned anyway)

There are 2v's out there with over 1,500hp with ported TrickFlow 2v's, so it might not be too crazy to try.

I was looking at triple fuel pumps, or getting an 18 gallon tank with a massive in tank pump.
Place quoted me ~$2,000 for the tank, pump, lines, and rails. (I would just need injectors then)
They claim their pump can support over 2,000hp.
I don't know if thats true, but its probably safe to assume it can handle half of that.

 

[Winters98GT]

@Noobz347 . I'm freaking dying for you tagging me.

I'm going to need a lot of popcorn for this.

OP, that blower is a heavy heat pump on top of your engine. You'll need a 4.0 blower and a nasty 4v engine to crack 1000rwhp. You might see 475ish, not sure if much more.

You can compound boost your car. My buddy Micah makes 1300-1500hp in his twin 76mm with the stock 03-04 cobra blower.

My buddies GT500 at the mile. Lots of time in this car.


View: http://youtu.be/ySM2H8MOvXY



But honestly, you'll need to ditch that blower and get a YSI or F series to see 700-800 in a 2v on pump.

 

[cbanakis]

You have pics of the current setup and build?

Nothing worth showing off at this point, so no pics yet.

I'll probably take some this weekend while I redo the oil system, but its just a dirty 4.6 with a blower on top at this point.

I also still need to build and install the Teksid.
I have the block, rotating assembly, ARP bolts and studs, clevite bearings and a complete police interceptor engine to scavenge for mundane parts, and to use as a template so I know where everything goes.

Got the cop motor for $300, and figured just selling the intake manifold and heads will put me ahead.

Then theres probably like $300 worth of stupid parts I'll need from it, and It'll save me tons of time.

Got the Police Interceptor on an engine stand, right next to the Teksid on a 2nd stand.

So far, whats in the car...

Kooks stainless longtubes
Steeda stainless cat back
Saleen Series 4 Supercharger (2.8" Pulley)
MSD Coils
Auburn ECTED (Locking Diff)
Steeda Subframes
QA1 Tubular K-Member with coil overs and adjustable struts.
75mm Throttle Body
Cold Air Intake (In Fender)
QA1 Carbon Fiber Driveshaft
Racing Clutch (Don't remember what kind, but I think its good up to 600hp)
Raised Hood
3 Point Strut Tower Brace
MMR Oil Filter Adapter Plate, with Remote Oil Filter
Generic 10-Row Aluminum Oil Cooler
Bullitt Side Scoops
And HID Halo Projectors

Custom Idler Pulley for Supercharger.
Made by me, just an aluminum flat iron running from the top inside driverside corner of the timing cover, to the driverside alternator bolt, with a pulley in the middle, to get my belt to wrap the blower pulley better.

Probably some more, but thats probably everything that is significant.

 

[cbanakis]

@Noobz347 . I'm freaking dying for you tagging me.

I'm going to need a lot of popcorn for this.

OP, that blower is a heavy heat pump on top of your engine. You'll need a 4.0 blower and a nasty 4v engine to crack 1000rwhp. You might see 475ish, not sure if much more.

You can compound boost your car. My buddy Micah makes 1300-1500hp in his twin 76mm with the stock 03-04 cobra blower.

My buddies GT500 at the mile. Lots of time in this car.


View: http://youtu.be/ySM2H8MOvXY



But honestly, you'll need to ditch that blower and get a YSI or F series to see 700-800 in a 2v on pump.

Well, this is my first attempt at doing anything on this level, but I'm pretty sure that Trickflows and fuel will get me way over 475.

The Saleen will probably have to go at some point.

That's why I started this thread.
(I know it sucks at blowing)

I was looking at a kenne bell 2.8.
Allegedly that would be sufficient.

Haven't looked at YSI or F series.

Looked at compound boost, but the Saleen would probably just be in the way.
AND, my headers would be garbage.

 

[Noobz347]

 

[Bullitt347]

A 2.8 Kenne Bell will support almost 1,000 RWHP if done right. It is liquid cooled so if plumed right it will run relatively cool. There is a lot that goes into making a 2.8 do that. It would be easier to go with the 3.6 or 4.0 though. You don't have to spin them as hard and they can make a lot more boost.

 

[cbanakis]

So, I ended up just doing the remote oil filter, and engine oil cooler.

Without tieing the Saleen oil into the loop.

I'm just gonna focus on building this teksid motor, then someday replace the Saleen with at least a 2.8 Kenne Bell.

I was hoping I could salvage this saleen blower with a good rebuild, port job, and inter cooler, but its a lost cause.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Hopefully someday I'll have my heads, trans, fuel system, and the Kenne Bell, so I can post results.

 

[Noobz347]

 

[cbanakis]

I'll upload pics of my engine parts, and my filthy car next weekend.

 

[Noobz347]