Satchel rear coilover

mcode, it is a walk in the park to pull a rear axle off these cars. I've done it many times on both my '65 and my '70 Cougar and I'm a 53 year old 97 lb weakling (well, it's 170 lbs now, but still). You undo the shackles and drop the wheels to the ground, undo the U-bolts, and roll the whole thing out. The biggest challenge was with the Stang the brake line just will not come off the Y-splitter at the axle. Solution: disconnect the hard lines at each end from the wheel cylinders and suspend the whole thing with some baling wire.

yep, exactly the way we did mine. pulled it just to paint and detail it, didn't have to pull the pumpkin out but that would have been a cinch too. we did pull both axles and replace the seals and we replaced the pinion seal as well. i changed out the leaf springs too but we could have done that with the rearend in the car but i wanted to clean up the housing and paint it. BTW, this car is a driver and not a show car but i could show it if i wanted.

edit: i drive it in the rain too, BTW.

mcode said:

Will i need a panhard bar or sway bar???

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You do not need a panhard bar with a triangulated 4 link suspension. The angled upper bars locate the rear end in position. I am not sure you will give up much ride quality with spherical rod ends vs poly bushings. Poly bushing are pretty stiff and don't have much flex in them. I am going to go with their second kit. I like the shperical rod ends and can live without the billet lower bars.

mcode said:

Okay than i am on the fence on what G-Bar i should pick. I am leaning on the Poly bushing kit as the tcp web site says it is the best for the street. less harsh ride

Problem --i am worried about possible bind that 4 links seem to exhibit.

By going to the G-link with the swivel ends will i encounter less potential bind but the tradeoff would be a harsher ride. But the lower links have adjustable length.

Choices--Choices

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i'd say it depends on your budget really, the G-Link kit is not going to a whole lot harsher than the G-Bar and probably both will less harsh than the stock leaf springs which is another reason i like this kit. also, just so eveyone knows there is no inherent bind in a triagulated 4 link like this one, bind is usually caused by other factors (flexing of the link bars, worn out bushings, etc.) these things will flex like crazy, now if you start adding sway bars and lateral location devices (which aren't needed) it's possible to introduce bind but TCP has taken car of that as well with the sliding link sway bar ir the splined bar. definitely don't need or want a panhard bar or watt's with this system (see comment above), exhaust routing is already going to a little more difficult but if you were to add a lateral locator it would be impossible, good thing they aren't needed huh?


my self, i'll probably go with the G-Bar with poly bushings and the sliding link sway bar and if need be i can always upgrade to the rod end links later. it kinda sucks that the cougar version is so much more expensive, i know it's only 1 or 2 hundred more bucks but i'm poor and could use that money somewhere else but i'm also thankful they have this system available for the cougars otherwise the only other system in my price range would be that ghastly rod and custom piece that uses three of the diff bolts to hold the uppper link bar plate, thats' scary

Greetings fellow corner carvers!

I was just given the coordinates to your forum here from a friend who evidently visits. My name is Rick and I'm the designer of our companies new Max G suspension system. I have read some of your posts here and decided to answer some of your questions regarding my system.

Let me start by apologizing for our less then navigation friendly HDR website; its been recently overhauled and we're still tweaking.

First off; I believe we should all be able to agree, that by visiting our website, you should be able to easily disern that the level of design and fabrication work done here at HDR is high, with most of it revolving around current race design. We build race chassis and suspension systems for Rolex series cars to top fuel funny cars; and no less expertise will ever be found in any other part or system we offer. I think if you think about it; someone of Mr. Satchells fame and well diserved reputation would not allow his name to be publically associated with me personally or my company if our ability in all these areas was not above par.

Before I start this; Please understand. I have come from the same place many of you are at right now. I'm the guy that bought into all these other companies parts expertise and laid in the same street or cold garage floor as you do trying in vain most times to get the parts in the car I had to drive the next day. I finally decided most of these companies parts were based on the tried and true WAG method of design. So, I started my own company and built it off my long time race background. With that, I'm very busy, and generally to the point, so I again apologize in advance for what sometimes may seem arogant. Also, please excuse my typo's. I type fast.

To answer some of your questions:
1. Some of you seem to be shopping price. If thats the case, move onto the lesser systems. The raw materials we use alone, before fabrication and powder coating cost more then most of these other systems completely finished.

2. Bolt in? As someone already stated; I do recomend welding it in a race dedicated car. However my system has been tested in my personal 74 SD455 TA for over a year on these PA roads 5 days a week for most of the year at 160 miles a day. The car is checked/measured for movement or settling a minimum of once every 2 weeks. Not one bit of movement has occured. And I drive the hell out of my car, as well as track it. I agree, most bolt in systems are weak. If this one moves on you because of my design, I'll buy it back and give you $500.00 for your trouble. Also, it should be understood. When I set out to make this work on my car. I decided right off, if we couldnt make it as strong as a weld in, then we wouldnt do it at all. My reasoning for the push to bolt in only was; no way am I welding anything into my SD T/A. Understanding that neither would you, or at least you shouldnt. So, if it couldnt be done to my quality expectations, you guys were basically going to remain stuck with the other brands and inferior designs.

3. The Mustang system is done; we are just waiting for our outsourced powder coating to come back on-line. A front bolt on under-sub-frame system which will utilize our long tested Cobra frt geometry is also in the werks as well. And if its any aid to you, we just had a Ford engineer check out and buy the rear system for his 70 Mk1 after many hours of questions and prodding to make sure I was the real deal.

4. 3-link, 4-link, Watts link??? Come on guys; 3 link if your racing a dirt car, 4 link if your drag racing and thats debatable, Watts link or Pan-hard if you hate low roll centers and flat cornering, and torque arms?? Man, where do I begin? . There is just no way, once you do any research at all on Mr. Terry Satchell and his geomerty, can you continue to believe that any of those systems can even come close to this systems ability. Way to many big race teams have utilized this geometry with great results. This is a long time race bred and tested system; What other brands can say that and back it up?

Our Cobra & Daytona Coupe replica's, which are NOT kit cars, and have been sold exclusively in turnkey form for over 12 yrs now; have been and continue to be considered the highest end, highest performance Cobra replica's in the world. Those cars have always enjoyed the exclusive use of Terry's geometry, which is allot of the reason they have been considered such.

5. Price?? Not sure where you came up with 4k? It should be 4k, its worth all of that amount. We have been selling it at 3195.00 which just isnt that much over our actual cost to produce the system initially. But again, we tend to cater to the higher end pallet and or those who stretch a bit to own the best of anything.

6. Similar performance to other systems? Not even close. My SD was turning in with an Audi TT at Road Atlanta this past July and staying with him hard, to his unbelief. In fact, you wont even be able to drive your car the same way anymore with this system. You will have to re-learn how to corner it hard, and gain confidence in yourself by slowly pushing more and more. This is no half hearted system; this makes some serious changes in your cars cornering ability. No more coming off the gas before the corner. Now powering on all the way through is typical as soon as you believe you can do it.

7. Testing for weakness? As already stated, the system has been thoroughly thrashed by me personally on the street and track, with zero issues. The basic parts and raw materials, as well as the other aftermarket parts have all been gleaned directly from our Cobra's long production run; which has had more then 12 yrs testing and production, the last 8 of which had no additional major changes. Again, if this system come apart in any way, or proves to have any design error's at all; I'll buy it back and pay you for the trouble.

8. Rusty67, two bolts??? No idea what you think you saw; but in all versions of this system, we utilize every single main bolt that was originally holding the OEM system parts in place, with the addition of other bolts as well where we deems the OEM failed a bit. Again, if the person doing the install follows the very detailed instructions with the many pictures, and has reasonable good mechanical skills, i.e. (dont drill a 1/2 hole with a 5/8" bit), Then you will all have the exact same results as I have had over the past 18 months.

9. Exhaust? Our Max G system has allot more to it then the others; its not just a rear suspension link system, it connects from front to rear. The center bridge could have been made allot smaller or deleted; but that wouldnt have given me the desired result of some serious mid-section stiffening. With that, most guys will have to either tweak their current exhaust or have a shop bend up some new tubes. The exhaust can be terminated just through the rear of the mid-section chassis bridge with turn downs, or it can be taken over the rear and out. Either way, an exhaust rework is a small price to pay for the gain this system will provide.

10. Max G rear geometry math: 65% Anti-squat, 25% Anti-lift, w/less then 4% roll understeer. Please do call any or all of the other suspension mfg's and ask for their final geometry. Would love to know if you actually get an answer.

11. Customer no-cut, no-weld demand? Didnt know there was such a demand outside of my self imposed demand. Again, for my system it was imposed mainly because I thought there may be allot of guys like myself who had nice collectable cars who (SHOULD'NT), be welding on them; but would still like to up-grade them with superior quality parts for drive-abilities sake.

12. Compromises? None at all on the Mustang or any other model system. If I had to, I just wont offer it for that car. The Mustang system is basically exactly like the F-body system, although I changed the center bridge a bit for an even cooler look.

Ok guys, I got way longer winded here then I wished to. All in all, if its just a softer ride your looking for, and again, shopping price alone and not actually a long term extreme handling solution, then the other brands mentioned is where you'll end up. If your car means to you what my SD455 is to me; which is the only escape I get these days for the 75 miles I drive between here and my house; then your not about settling.

If any of you guys have questions, or just feel like calling me to let me know how the 25 odd yrs I've spent thus far designing and building frames and suspension systems was wasted; feel free to do it on my dime. 800-825-1359

Also; if you want an independent custom shops take on this system, call Dave Hall at ( Restor a Muscle car) @ 402-465-5756. www.restoreamusclecar.com

Rick

Personally I see nothing wrong with a weld in system, except for the need to outsourse the welding. Unless you have a really rare car where you might want to preserve the original integrity, a weld in system seems fine. You are after all trying to improve the old design not preserve its faults. Having said that, I see nothing wrong with a well thought out bolt in system either, the engineering being more important that the method of attachment. I know of Rick and HDR and can vouch for the quaility of his builds, I have seen his cobras and they are very well done. So I have no doubt his mustang system is well thought out and constructed.

TCP also has their Pushrod Coilover steup as well, not just the G-Bar, the G-Bar is really for us guys that don't want to spend the money for the Pushrod system or don't need that kind suspension. i think the Satchell link is pretty cool but it's just not the system i want for my car, nor is the TCP Pushrod Coilover setup the system i want either. i'm going with the base G-Bar or maybe the regular G-link if the budget allows and there's only a couple hundred bucks difference.

the point is that there are a ton of options out there now for Mustang rear suspensions (i wish there was as many for the cougar) and the end user get's to choose which system is best for his car. you chose the Satchell Link system because it was the best for your application but don't knock the other one's because they don't meet your requirements, not trying to start and argument just trying to say that one mans ideal system is not the ideal system for another, that's all.

i agree about shopping for the system with the most advantages and least disadvantages however for a lot of us cost is a big disadvantage. and one of my reasons for wanting a different rear suspension for my cougar is a better ride than the stock leaf springs and Rick has already said that wouldn't be the system for me because i want a better ride and i because i don't have that much cash.

sometimes it's about the best compromise, sometimes it's not but sometimes it's also about what will fit best too and in my case there are only a few companies making systems for the cougar, TCP, DVS has their IRS kit, and Evolution is supposed to be coming out with one of their 3 links for the coug as well.

anyway, points have been made. i think the HDR system is great but it may not be the right one for everybody.

I see no fault in using bolts for attachment as long as the the bolts are checked for proper torque at proper intervals. It's when the bolts become loose that you run into problems. Strength-wise, we use bolts on multi-span bridges to connect beams (called splice plates) and not welds.

congrats on both it is a nice looking system and i'm quite sure it ill make you car a true corner carver but the price is still way out of my league, the TCP G-Bar is still the system of choice for my cougar right now.

Any further follow-up on this? This might be the push to get me working on my '65 2+2. A couple of years ago Louie was trying to work out a Satchell link rear end, but gave up as he couldn't get the packaging right.

The construction of this is FAR superior to anything else I've seen. Using chromoly rather than mild steel is a huge improvement. The triangulation appears well thought out. And bolt in? Amazing.

The full-boat package for the GM cars is quite a work of art as well. At first blush it seems very expensive, but it is a very complete kit. I would love to be able to drive a Mustang with his front/rear setup. If he gets one built, it would be worth a flight up to PA to drive such a car.

Satchel system.

For what it's worth, I've talk briefly with Rick and seen his products up close, although never driven a vehicle with his products installed. The craftsmanship is first class and Rick is a no-**** stand up guy. This business is all about customer support, and in the end that's worth more than the price of any part. THe buyback thing he offers is unheard of, and to me, speaks volumes about his confidence in his product. I dont feel like I need to defend him, I'm not trying to. Just hoping to throw my 2c on the table, again, FWIW.

Hope this helps!

KT.