SCT SF3 Tuner help

twogts4us · Mar 8, 2012

I bought a used SCT SF3 tuner for my Mach 1. (Previously I had a Diablo Predator tuner, but after several attempts, working directly with Diablo, we could never get a decent tune. I ended up selling it and have been 'tuneless' for the past year or so. I'm finally getting 4.10s for my Mach, so I needed to buy another tuner (or speedo corrector, but I picked this SF3 up for just $175, not much more than a speedo box.)

ANYWAY, the canned tune works very well...EXCEPT for a little bit of tip in ping. I'm not sure if the canned tune is set for 91 or 93 octane, but I always, as instructed by Ford, run 93.

MY QUESTION: Should I adjust the Spark 0 - 2000, Spark 2000 - 4000, Spark 4000
- 8000, or WOT FUEL? Or a combination of these? Any suggestions?

My engine is basically stock - just a K&N filter and Steeda UDPs, along with a Magnaflow catted X and Magnaflow catback. I might add that when I have the gears installed, a K&N FilterCharger CAI kit will also be installed, so I might have to tweak the settings again then.

QUESTION #2: What and where is the SCT Software? Datalogging Software AND Tuning Software. (Do they have software that allows you to create a tune on the PC rather than on the handheld device? NOT the PRP software...just a simple and FREE piece of software is what I am looking for.) Their website and forums seem to be neglected...?

Thanks!
Chris

trombonedemon · Mar 8, 2012

Where you been?

twogts4us · Mar 8, 2012

Where have I been? Well, I haven't been out here as much as I used to...been busy with work mostly. My Dad passed away a couple years ago, then my Mom was hospitalized for an extended period, so that kinda kept me busy and focused on family and such. Then someone rear-ended me...and, of course, drove off (seems to be more commonplace than ever - my daughter was in a serious accident last month and the other driver, in a rental car, drove off.) Couple that with a lack of funds and I just haven't had the time and/or the need to surf Stangnet. Things are looking up now; I'm still far away from a Kenne Bell or turbo kit, but some 4.10s (and my newly installed Nitto NT05s) will wake 'er up!

Any advice for me with my SCT SF3 tuner? I'm not even sure which way I would adjust the spark. (up or down, plus or minus ???) Or I could throw more fuel at it, but my gut tells me a change to the spark advance would be the right way to go. Admittedly I am no expert, so I am asking for any and all help! I know how to use tuners, just not sure how to cure this tip in ping.

I DID find no ethanol 93 octane gas at a Citgo station down the street, which I'll be filling up on tonight. It's nearly impossible to find gas without ethanol these days...

How's your ride? (You need a sig my friend...letting us know whatcha got!)

trombonedemon · Mar 8, 2012

twogts4us said:
Where have I been? Well, I haven't been out here as much as I used to...been busy with work mostly. My Dad passed away a couple years ago, then my Mom was hospitalized for an extended period, so that kinda kept me busy and focused on family and such. Then someone rear-ended me...and, of course, drove off (seems to be more commonplace than ever - my daughter was in a serious accident last month and the other driver, in a rental car, drove off.) Couple that with a lack of funds and I just haven't had the time and/or the need to surf Stangnet. Things are looking up now; I'm still far away from a Kenne Bell or turbo kit, but some 4.10s (and my newly installed Nitto NT05s) will wake 'er up!

Any advice for me with my SCT SF3 tuner? I'm not even sure which way I would adjust the spark. (up or down, plus or minus ???) Or I could throw more fuel at it, but my gut tells me a change to the spark advance would be the right way to go. Admittedly I am no expert, so I am asking for any and all help! I know how to use tuners, just not sure how to cure this tip in ping.

I DID find no ethanol 93 octane gas at a Citgo station down the street, which I'll be filling up on tonight. It's nearly impossible to find gas without ethanol these days...

How's your ride? (You need a sig my friend...letting us know whatcha got!)

Me personally would try to lessen the timing. Seems safer then throwing excess fuel at the car's spark-plugs.

Yea dude, I'm not one to be bragging about my car and really like hearing about everyone's cars, my car is driven by me everyday and has lost some what of a "comparing car" luster, you know what I'm trying to say.

twogts4us · Mar 8, 2012

I found that the non-ethanol gas down the street is 90 octane, not 93 as I had previously thought.

Did the mods yank that other thread? I can't find it now. LOL! That dude was a complete jack wagon. Hopefully his account was suspended. Those remarks he tossed at you were totally uncalled for. He was way outta line. It's amazing how 'ballzie' people can be when they (think) they are hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.

Anyway...yeah, pulling some timing was my initial thought as well. I'll try that tomorrow.

Thanks!
Chris

2002BLGT · Mar 11, 2012

might be a good idea to get a dyno pull with air/fuel so you can adjust the fuel if needed as well as backing the timing off a couple degrees

03_TrueBlue_GT · Mar 11, 2012

My SCT tunes from American Muscle caused my GT to ping when I would get into 3rd gear at about 4500-6000rpms and in 4th gear at w0t... I called them and they told me to do change the spark plugs and blah blah blah. Well I have done a full tune up recently and they told me the only thing to do was retard the global spark -2 or -3 degrees. I did -3 degrees and no more pinging at all... I think they just make the canned tunes a little to aggressive.. Still they are helpful and glad I can get free tunes from them.

So try taking -2 or -3 degrees off the global spark and let us know...

twogts4us · Mar 15, 2012

Mine doesn't have a global setting, so I changed 2 of the 3 ranges, 2000 - 4000 and 4000 - 8000 with a -3 setting. Much better. Thanks for the tip!

trombonedemon · Mar 15, 2012

03_TrueBlue_GT said:
My SCT tunes from American Muscle caused my GT to ping when I would get into 3rd gear at about 4500-6000rpms and in 4th gear at w0t... I called them and they told me to do change the spark plugs and blah blah blah. Well I have done a full tune up recently and they told me the only thing to do was retard the global spark -2 or -3 degrees. I did -3 degrees and no more pinging at all... I think they just make the canned tunes a little to aggressive.. Still they are helpful and glad I can get free tunes from them.

So try taking -2 or -3 degrees off the global spark and let us know...

Yea which it is really ideal for a "dyno" tune to be in place. Those "Can" tunes can't account for every barometric pressure in every environmental situation a person might be in.

Hell your car might not ping in a lower elevation.

03_TrueBlue_GT · Mar 15, 2012

twogts4us said:
Mine doesn't have a global setting, so I changed 2 of the 3 ranges, 2000 - 4000 and 4000 - 8000 with a -3 setting. Much better. Thanks for the tip!

Glad that I was able to help.

trombonedemon said:
Yea which it is really ideal for a "dyno" tune to be in place. Those "Can" tunes can't account for every barometric pressure in every environmental situation a person might be in.

Hell your car might not ping in a lower elevation.

Well Im at sea level for the elevation so Im as low as it can get. I fig they just made the tune too aggressive for the car. I want to dyno tune it but right now it has to wait...

twogts4us · Mar 16, 2012

Dittos TrueBlue - I'm just over a mile from the Gulf of Mexico, exactly 7' above sea level.

I agree, I think the tune was a little aggressive - either that or my (stock sized) K&N filter is more efficient than I thought..!

And regarding dyno tuning, I don't have mods that make it worth while to spend money on a dyno tune. $150 - 250 or whatever it costs for an increase of 4-7 PEAK horsepower is hardly cost efficient. At least people who put a CAI on their car and get the same gains have something nice to look at under the hood (for the $150 - $250 invested).

Maxium · Mar 16, 2012

One thing to check with tip-in pinging is your egr and egr solenoid. I used to get that tip-in pinging (especially with an aggressive tune), then I measured the amount of vacuum pressure from the solenoid to egr valve and found the solenoid wasn't commanding enough vacuum to the egr valve thus the egr valve wasn't letting enough exhaust into the intake. Basically, unless the tune deletes the egr, the pcm will up the timing, thinking that it's getting a certain amount of exhaust gas back into the system (thus cooling the combustion, etc). This wouldn't apply at WOT since the computer turns off egr function at open loop. Something to consider.

trombonedemon · Mar 16, 2012

Maxium said:
One thing to check with tip-in pinging is your egr and egr solenoid. I used to get that tip-in pinging (especially with an aggressive tune), then I measured the amount of vacuum pressure from the solenoid to egr valve and found the solenoid wasn't commanding enough vacuum to the egr valve thus the egr valve wasn't letting enough exhaust into the intake. Basically, unless the tune deletes the egr, the pcm will up the timing, thinking that it's getting a certain amount of exhaust gas back into the system (thus cooling the combustion, etc). This wouldn't apply at WOT since the computer turns off egr function at open loop. Something to consider.

How did you measure the vacuum from the egr valve to the solenoid, Vacuum gauge?

trombonedemon · Mar 16, 2012

twogts4us said:
Dittos TrueBlue - I'm just over a mile from the Gulf of Mexico, exactly 7' above sea level.

I agree, I think the tune was a little aggressive - either that or my (stock sized) K&N filter is more efficient than I thought..!

And regarding dyno tuning, I don't have mods that make it worth while to spend money on a dyno tune. $150 - 250 or whatever it costs for an increase of 4-7 PEAK horsepower is hardly cost efficient. At least people who put a CAI on their car and get the same gains have something nice to look at under the hood (for the $150 - $250 invested).

Its not really just about horsepower, more of finding more of effecient parameters for the car you drive and the enviorment you use.

"Can" tunes are guessing that your car reacts congruently to what they would call normal for a mustang. Which is why the Check-engine-light comes on a lot in these forums when people start using SCT tunes and so on and so forth.

The Dyno can be used to just to make a car run smoother not just for the Ponies. To each his/her own.

twogts4us · Mar 16, 2012

Excellent point Maxium. Today my Mach is in the shop getting 4.10 gears, new Brembo rotors and Hawk HPS pads, and a K&N Filtercharger CAI kit (I bought NIB from www.craigslist.org) for $40 (what a steal) finally gets installed.
This weekend I'll play with the tune a bit more as the CAI will likely have some effect on it.
I have seen gummed up EGR valves and loose EGR hoses - either one could contribute to the issue as you've explained. Thanks!

Chris

twogts4us · Mar 16, 2012

trombonedemon said:
Its not really just about horsepower, more of finding more of effecient parameters for the car you drive and the enviorment you use.

"Can" tunes are guessing that your car reacts congruently to what they would call normal for a mustang. Which is why the Check-engine-light comes on a lot in these forums when people start using SCT tunes and so on and so forth.

The Dyno can be used to just to make a car run smoother not just for the Ponies. To each his/her own.

Why wouldn't the car run smoothly already? The OEM tuning is quite adaptive to conditions all around the country. As I did when I owned a Diablo Predator tuner, when the canned tune pinged badly, and the various tunes Diablo sent me via email were no better (some were worse) I simply reverted back to the OEM tune (and sold the tuner). It was simply not worth it for me to go to the dyno to fix what the Diablo Predator tuner had broken. It ran fine without it. A tuner shouldn't be considered a 'fix' for a rough running car. Why would you bother installing a canned tune to then have to go get it dyno tuned to get it to run right?

My logic is this - for stock or nearly stock, if the canned tune doesn't work out of the box and any attempts to manually adjust the parameters yourself fail, I'd recommend just dumping the canned tune and going with the OEM tune.
For those with moderate or highly modified rides, I'd start with the canned tune (or emailed tune, or whatever comes with the tuner deal), and then if you can't get it right by modifying it yourself (or don't feel comfortable modifying it yourself) then you really should get dialed in with a dyno tune. For PA cars, you really need to get on a dyno to check, among other things, your AFR (unless you can monitor yourself). If it ain't broke...

trombonedemon · Mar 16, 2012

twogts4us said:
Why wouldn't the car run smoothly already? The OEM tuning is quite adaptive to conditions all around the country. As I did when I owned a Diablo Predator tuner, when the canned tune pinged badly, and the various tunes Diablo sent me via email were no better (some were worse) I simply reverted back to the OEM tune (and sold the tuner). It was simply not worth it for me to go to the dyno to fix what the Diablo Predator tuner had broken. It ran fine without it. A tuner shouldn't be considered a 'fix' for a rough running car. Why would you bother installing a canned tune to then have to go get it dyno tuned to get it to run right?

My logic is this - for stock or nearly stock, if the canned tune doesn't work out of the box and any attempts to manually adjust the parameters yourself fail, I'd recommend just dumping the canned tune and going with the OEM tune.
For those with moderate or highly modified rides, I'd start with the canned tune (or emailed tune, or whatever comes with the tuner deal), and then if you can't get it right by modifying it yourself (or don't feel comfortable modifying it yourself) then you really should get dialed in with a dyno tune. For PA cars, you really need to get on a dyno to check, among other things, your AFR (unless you can monitor yourself). If it ain't broke...

Some dudes stock cars run terribly in extreme climates, such as Arizona or Florida ( humid.) I know my car sucks when it is hot and humid, its possible to get the SCT Live Wire, dyno the car on a extreme humid day and put the tune in.

Plus my Stang knocks on anything less then 93 Octane, it has a stock tune. 499.00 is really steep to have the ability to change tunes though.

Maxium · Mar 16, 2012

trombonedemon said:
How did you measure the vacuum from the egr valve to the solenoid, Vacuum gauge?

Here's what I did to measure that vacuum. I bought 5 feet of vacuum hosing. T'd off of the egr valve vacuum hose going to the solenoid (mine was a green hard plastic line). I routed the 5 feet of vacuum hosing through the driver side firewall (there's a rubber gasket that I routed power lines to my amp through) and connected the other end to a vacuum gauge that I duct taped to my dash. I hooked up my SCT tuner and monitored EGR duty cycle. I'm pretty sure the range for the PID is anywhere from 0.00-0.500. When I saw the duty cycle on the tuner go up, I would watch my vacuum gauge to see if the solenoid was sending the right amount of vacuum to the egr valve (0-5 in/hg). More vacuum = more egr gas being let through.

You can also test the egr/egr passage way (tube going to egr) by idling the car and manually applying 5 in/hg of vacuum to the port on the egr. The car should stumble or flat out die. If it does, then your egr is working and your passages are clear.

twogts4us · Mar 17, 2012

trombonedemon said:
Some dudes stock cars run terribly in extreme climates, such as Arizona or Florida ( humid.) I know my car sucks when it is hot and humid, its possible to get the SCT Live Wire, dyno the car on a extreme humid day and put the tune in.

Plus my Stang knocks on anything less then 93 Octane, it has a stock tune. 499.00 is really steep to have the ability to change tunes though.

I'm in Florida and just like any other car, it likes cool and dry air better, it certainly doesn't 'run terribly' or even run bad at all it the hot and humid dog days of summer. On those days it just doesn't have the jump it does on cooler and drier days - but again, it doesn't run terribly...not anywhere near terrible.

Have you been to Arizona? My God, it's waaayy dry. Waaayy hot too, but bone dry. It's a friggin desert dude.

Dyno tuning a stock or nearly stock car for different weather conditions is ridiculous and, as you noted, very expensive. Every pure race cars, not all of the weekend warriors, but true, dedicated race cars do tune around the weather - both engine and chassis. But they are trying to eek out every tiny bit of advantage over the guy in the next lane - when hundreds (if not thousands) of a second matter.

You said your Mustang 'knocks on anything less than 93 octane on a stock tune'? What mods do you have? What year / mileage?

twogts4us · Mar 17, 2012

Another great, informative post there Maxium - thanks again!

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