Seeking Eec-iv Advice

[imp]

So, my nephew has reached the final stages of having a 5.0 HO in his '65 Galaxie. Here's the things he did, which might be the cause for his dilemma now: no spark.

Bought a brand-new Fox distributor, with TFI mounted, which allowed use of his aftermarket harness plug-in without wiring modification. His intent was to check initial timing while cranking, SPOUT removed, all plugs removed to allow fast cranking. No spark. PCM Power Relay is pulling in when key on. Reads 12V at ign. coil. key on, 0 V cranking----I think he checked the ground return connection instead of the + terminal; he didn't remember. Will repeat tomorrow. Coil primary ohms about 1 ohm (meets spec). Secondary coil ohms very high, not shorted out. Anyway, he bought a new coil, O'reilly's, same effect. Today he bought a second brand-new distributor, O'Reilly's, no spark.

I am not sure how to have him check for PIP output with what he has available, some kind of digital VOM. Spark is created by turning coil OFF for a split second at a time. A DVOM "samples" at a long interval, maybe a second or two, or more, I don't feel any meaningful reading can be gotten, if cranking speed ~ 500 rpm, there's 250 X 8 sparks per minute, or 33 sparks per second.

Here's my questions. Is PIP signal not also used to "fire" the injectors? IOW, if no PIP, engine could not run using conventional ignition points distributor, for no injection?

If PCM were at fault, would the coil voltage be getting switched, as it seems to be? He bought the PCM off Ebay from a private party, whom he met. If it were a 4-cyl. PCM, he'd still get spark, some time.

He's in a bind, school in Ft. Leonard Wood, MO, another 2 weeks, then returns to NC for about a week, in the Marine Corps., then the long move out here to AZ, where we will keep his goodies during the time he's away in Okinawa. Appreciate ideas, suggestions. I really want to see the kid succeed with this venture. He's come a very long way from despondent high school dropout to responsible young man, Iraq twice, Afghanistan once. imp

 

[90sickfox]

Which computer is it ? If a factory one ...what year ?

 

[jrichker]

The PIP triggers the injectors and the TFI.

Cranks OK, but No Start Checklist for Fuel Injected 5.0 Mustangs model years 1986-1995

A word about this checklist before you start: it is arranged in a specific order to put the most likely failure items first. That will save you time, energy and money. Start at the top of the list and work your way down. Jumping around will possibly cause you to miss just what you need to see to find and fix the problem. Don’t skip any steps because the next step depends on the last step working correctly.

Revised 26-Jul-2017 to add fuse link diagram.

All text applies to all models unless stated otherwise.

Note: 94-95 specific changes are in red

1.) Remove push on connector (small red/blue wire) from starter solenoid and turn ignition switch to the Run position. Place car in neutral or Park and set the parking brake. Remove the coil wire from distributor & and hold it 3/8” away from the engine block. Jumper the screw to the big bolt on the starter solenoid that has the battery wire connected to it. You should get a nice fat blue spark.
Most of the items are electrical in nature, so a test light, or even better, a voltmeter, is helpful to be sure they have power to them.

No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) MSD, Crane, or other ignition box if present - Bypass it and return to stock configuration if possible. Do this as a temporary measure to eliminate it as a possible problem source.
B.) PIP sensor in distributor. The PIP sensor supplies the timing pulse to trigger the TFI and injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed. See paragraph 5A – Using a noid light will tell if the PIP is working by flashing when the engine is cranking.
C.) TFI module: use a test light to check the TFI module. Place one lead of the test light on the red/green wire on the ignition coil connector and the other lead on the dark green/yellow wire on the ignition coil connector. If the TFI is working properly, the test light will flash when the engine is cranked using the ignition switch.
D.) Coil
E.) No EEC or computer power - EEC or computer relay failure
86-93 models only: EEC relay next to computer - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
94-95 models only: EEC or PCM power relay in the constant control relay module. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
Both 86-93 and 94-95 models: No 12 volts with the ignition switch in the run position on the fuel injector red wires. The relay has failed or there is no power coming from the ignition switch. Make sure that there is 12 volts on the red/green wire on the coil before replacing the relay.
F.) No EEC or computer power - fuse or fuse link failure
86-93 models only: Fuse links in wiring harness - look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires. All the fuse links live in a bundle up near the starter solenoid. Look for a 20 gauge blue fuse link connected to 2 black/orange 14 gauge wires.
94-95 models only: 20 amp EEC fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the fuel injector red wires.
G.) Ignition switch - look for 12 volts at the ignition coil red/lt green wire. No 12 volts, blown fuse link or faulty ignition switch. Remove the plastic from around the ignition switch and look for 12 volts on the red/green wire on the ignition switch with it in the Run position. No 12 volts and the ignition switch is faulty. If 12 volts is present in the Run position at the ignition switch but not at the coil, then the fuse or fuse link is blown.
Note: fuses or fuse links blow for a reason. Don’t replace either a fuse or fuse link with one with a larger rating than stock. Doing so invites an electrical fire.
Ignition fuse links may be replaced with an inline fuse holder and 5 amp fuse for troubleshooting purposes.
94-95 models only: Check inside fuse panel for fuse #18 blown – 20 amp [fuse
H.) Missing or loose computer power ground. The computer has its own dedicated power ground that comes off the ground pigtail on the battery ground wire. Due to it's proximity to the battery, it may become corroded by acid fumes from the battery.
In 86-90 model cars, it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/lt green wire.
In 91-95 model cars it is a black cylinder about 2 1/2" long by 1" diameter with a black/white wire.
You'll find it up next to the starter solenoid where the wire goes into the wiring harness
I.) Computer. Don’t replace the computer just because you don’t understand how it works. Computers seldom fail, it usually is a sensor or wiring problem that causes the problems.
J.) Bad or missing secondary power ground. It is located between the back of the intake manifold and the driver's side firewall. It supplies ground for the alternator, A/C compressor clutch and other electrical accessories such as the gauges.
K.) Engine fires briefly, but dies immediately when the key is released to the Run position. Crank the engine & when it fires off, pull the small push on connector (red/blue wire) off the starter relay (Looks like it is stuck on a screw). Hold the switch in the crank position: if it continues to run there is a problem with either the ignition switch or TFI module. Check for 12 volts at the red/green wire on the coil with the switch in the Run position. Good 12 volts, then replace the TFI.
See the Ignition switch wiring diagram for more information on the ignition wiring fuse link because it is the next thing to be tested. You will need a Multimeter or DVM and know how to use the Ohms function to check continuity between the red/green wire on the ignition coil and the red/green wire on the ignition switch. Make sure that the ignition switch is in the off position when you do the check. You should see less than 1 Ω (Ohm) between the red/green wire on the coil and the red/green wire on the ignition switch. More than 1 Ω means that the fuse link may have blown open and needs to be replaced. If you get 1 Ω or less means the fuse link is OK and the ignition switch is bad.

Wiring Diagrams:

See the following website for some help from Tmoss (diagram designer) & Stang&2Birds (website host) for help on 88-95 wiring Mustang FAQ - Engine Information Everyone should bookmark this site.

Ignition switch wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif

Fuel, alternator, A/C and ignition wiring
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/fuel-alt-links-ign-ac.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 88-91 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 91-93 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/91-93_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif

Complete computer, actuator & sensor wiring diagram for 94-95 Mass Air Mustangs
http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/94-95_5.0_EEC_Wiring_Diagram.gif


AutoZone wiring diagrams: You can navigate to the diagrams yourself via Repair Info | AutoZone.com and select the car year, make, model and engine. That will enable you to bring up the wiring diagram for your particular car.

2.) Spark at coil wire, pull #1 plug wire off at the spark plug and check to see spark. No spark, possible failed items in order of their probability: [/b]
A.) Moisture inside distributor – remove cap, dry off & spray with WD40
B.) Distributor cap
C.) Rotor
D.) Spark Plug wires
E.) Coil weak or intermittent - you should see 3/8" fat blue spark with a good coil

3.) Spark at spark plug, but no start.
Next, get a can of starting fluid (ether) from your local auto parts store: costs a $1.30 or so. Then pull the air duct off at the throttle body elbow, open the throttle, and spray the ether in it. Reconnect the air duct and try to start the car. Do not try to start the car without reconnecting the air duct.

Two reasons:
1.) If it backfires, the chance for a serious fire is increased.
2.) On Mass Air cars, the computer needs to measure the MAF flow once the engine starts.
If it starts then, you have a fuel management issue. Continue the checklist with emphasis of fuel related items that follow. If it doesn’t, then it is a computer or timing issue: see Step 4.

Clue – listen for the fuel pump to prime when you first turn the ignition switch on. It should run for 2-4 seconds and shut off. To trick the fuel pump into running, find the EEC test connector and jump the connector in the Upper RH corner to ground. The EEC connector is near the wiper motor and LH hood hinge.

If the relay & inertia switch are OK, you will have power to the pump. Check fuel pressure – remove the cap from the Schrader valve behind the alternator and depress the core. Fuel should squirt out, catch it in a rag. Beware of fire hazard when you do this. In a pinch, you can use a tire pressure gauge to measure the fuel pressure. It may not be completely accurate, but you will have some clue as to how much pressure you have. If you have any doubts about having sufficient fuel flow/pressure, rent a fuel pressure test gauge from the auto parts store. That will tell you for sure if you have adequate fuel pressure.


4.) No fuel pressure, possible failed items in order of their probability:
A.) Tripped inertia switch – Coupe & hatch cars hide it under the plastic trim covering the driver's side taillight. Use the voltmeter or test light to make sure you have power to both sides of the switch
B.) Fuel pump power relay – located under the driver’s seat in most stangs built before 92. On 92 and later model cars it is located below the Mass Air Flow meter. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
C.) Clogged fuel filter
D.) Failed fuel pump
E.) 86-90 models only: Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Orange/Lt Blue wire on the fuel pump relay.
91-93 models only Blown fuse link in wiring harness. Look for 12 volts at the Pink/Black wire on the fuel pump relay.
The fuse links for all model years 86-93 live in the wiring harness near the starter solenoid.

94-95 models only: 20 amp fuel pump fuse in the engine compartment fuse box. Look for 12 volts at the Dark green/yellow wire on the constant control relay module.
F.) Engine seem to load up on fuel and may have black smoke at the tailpipe. Fuel pressure regulator failed. Remove the vacuum line from the regulator and inspect for fuel escaping while the pump is running. If fuel is coming out the vacuum port, the regulator has failed. Check the regulator vacuum line for fuel too. Disconnect it from the engine and blow air though it. If you find gas, the regulator has failed.

5.) Fuel pressure OK, the injectors are not firing.
A.) The PIP sensor in the distributor tells the computer when to fire the injectors. A failing PIP sensor will sometimes let the engine start if the SPOUT is removed.
A noid light available from any auto parts store, is one way to test the injector circuit to see if the injectors are firing. The noid light plugs into the fuel injector harness in place of any easily accessible injector. Plug it in and try to start the engine: it will flash if the injector is firing.

I like to use an old injector with compressed air applied to the injector where the fuel rail would normally connect. I hook the whole thing up, apply compressed air to the injector and stick it in a paper cup of soapy water. When the engine cranks with the ignition switch on, if the injector fires, it makes bubbles. Cheap if you have the stuff laying around, and works good too.
B.) Pull an injector wire connector off and look for 12 volts on the red wire when the ignition switch is on.
C.) No power, then look for problems with the 10 pin connecter (salt & pepper shakers at the rear of the upper manifold).

See the graphic for the 10 pin connector circuit layout.

The injector power pin is the VPWR pin in the black 10 pin connector.

D.) No power and the 10 pin connections are good: look for broken wiring between the orange/black wire on the EEC relay and the red wire for the 10 pin connectors.
E.) TPS voltage exceeds 3.7 volts with the throttle closed. This will shut off the injectors, since the computer uses this strategy to clear a flooded engine. Use a DVM, a pair of safety pins, and probe the black/white and green wires to measure the TPS voltage.
On a 94-95 Mustang, probe the black/white and grey/white wires to measure the TPS voltage.
It should be .5-.1.0 volts with the key on, engine not running. Note that if the black/white wire (signal ground) has a bad connection, you will get some strange readings. Make a second measurement using the battery post as the ground to eliminate any ground problems. If the readings are different by more than 5%, you may have a high resistance condition in the black/white signal ground circuit.

6.) Spark & fuel pressure OK.
A.) Failed IAB or improperly set base idle (no airflow to start engine). Press the throttle ¼ way down and try to start the car. See the "Surging Idle Checklist for help with all your idle/stall problems.
B.) Failed computer (not very likely)
C.) Engine ignition or cam timing off: only likely if the engine has been worked on recently. If you removed the distributor, there is a good probability that you installed it 180 degrees out of time.
D.) Firing order off: HO & 351 use a different firing order from the non HO engines.
HO & 351W 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Non HO 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8
E.) No start when hot - Press the throttle to the floor & try starting it, if you get this far. If it starts, replace the ECT.
F. ) Engine that has had the heads off or valves adjusted. Do a compression test to make sure the valves are not adjusted too tight. You should have a minimum of 90 PSI on a cold engine

 

[imp]

Which computer is it ? If a factory one ...what year ?

The computer he bought on Ebay, it's suffix numbers matched those called out for use with the harness he bought from Summit. If I weren't 2000 miles away from him, I'd be poring over that harness looking for possible problems. I don't think his level of understanding Electric Theory is great, but above average. His training in the Marine Corps is as a Heavy Equipment Mechanic and Welder.

The year of the PCM is unknown. My understanding is that from '89 to '93 they were pretty much identical, all mass air, slightly different programming between manual and automatic, differences which I think I've figured out from using both.

Today's progress (?), 2 trouble-shooting links I sent suggested a DVOM should read 5 to 7 volts at the SPOUT connector, disconnected, cranking. He got 0.8 volts, is returning the new distributor for another tomorrow. Strange thing is, when he rotated the distributor about position #1 TDC, he got a good spark at the coil. I haven't reasoned out yet whether that means the PCM is processing the PIP signal, or not. If nothing else, it indicates the Hall Effect generator is working, and suggests the problem might lie in the TFI. imp

 

[imp]

@jrichker
I will forward your troubleshooting list to him. Thank you for taking the time to provide it. I wish I knew more about the actual processing means used to derive the pulses for spark and injectors. imp

 

[jrichker]

@jrichker
I will forward your troubleshooting list to him. Thank you for taking the time to provide it. I wish I knew more about the actual processing means used to derive the pulses for spark and injectors. imp

Here's a book that will get you started with how the Ford electronic engine control or "computer" works.

Ford Fuel Injection & Electronic Engine Control 1988-1993 by Charles Probst :ISBN 0-8376-0301-3.

It's about $25-$50 from Borders.com see http://www.amazon.com/ . Select books and then select search. Use the ISBN number (without dashes or spaces) to do a search. Try searching using M-1832-Z1 instead of the ISBN number if you don’t get any positive results. You may only be able to find a used one, since the book is as old as the cars it covers. Or you order it from your Ford dealer as SVO part no. M-1832-Z1.


Use the ISBN number and your local library can get you a loaner copy for free. Only thing is you are limited to keeping the book for two weeks. It is very good, and I found it to be very helpful.



Tmoss’s explanation of how TFI modules work
OK guys here is the straight skinny........If uyour TFI is gray - buy a gray one..........NOTHIN TO DO WITH AUTO OR MANUAL........

Most technicians who deal with Ford drivability and no-start problems have become very familiar with the Thick Film Ignition (TFI) system. Ford started using the six-pin TFI module with the EEC-IV computer system in 1983, and for years it remained basically unchanged.

The early TFI system, which Ford calls the "Push Start" TFI system, uses a gray TFI module. Originally, the module was mounted on the distributor. In the late '80s, Ford began to relocate it away from the distributor on some vehicles to provide better protection from the effects of engine heat, but system operation remained the same. It uses a Hall effect pickup (stator) in the distributor, which generates a battery voltage, 50% duty cycle square wave, called the PIP signal, to the EEC-IV PCM and the TFI module. The PCM processes this signal and sends out another battery voltage, 50% duty cycle square wave, called the SPOUT signal, to the TFI module. As long as the TFI module is receiving a SPOUT signal, it will fire the coil at the rising edge of that signal (except during engine cranking, when SPOUT is ignored) and the vehicle will run with the amount of timing advance commanded by the computer. If the TFI module does not receive the SPOUT signal, it will fire the coil at the rising edge of the PIP signal, and the vehicle will run at base timing. This is true on all TFI systems.

Ignition dwell with the Push Start (gray module) system is controlled by the TFI module alone, and increases with engine rpm. The Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) signal on a Push Start TFI system comes from the coil negative circuit and is filtered through a 22k ohm resistor to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer. The computer monitors this circuit to verify a coil firing for each PIP signal, and sets codes if it sees missing or erratic signals. Another feature that is unique to the Push Start TFI system is the start input on pin #4 of the module connector. This is wired into the starter relay trigger circuit, and signals the TFI module that the engine is cranking. When the module sees battery voltage on this circuit, the SPOUT signal is ignored.

In the early '90s, Ford began using a different TFI system on certain vehicles -- the Computer Controlled Dwell (CCD) TFI system. The TFI module on CCD TFI is always black in color. There are a few major differences between the two systems. As the name implies, with the CCD system, the computer controls primary dwell. The CCD TFI module still ungrounds (fires) the coil at the rising edge of the SPOUT signal, but now the falling edge of the SPOUT signal (which had no meaning to the Push Start TFI module) is used by the CCD TFI module to ground the coil. The PIP signal remains the same 50% duty cycle square wave, but SPOUT signal duty cycle varies according to how much dwell is desired by the computer.

Another major difference between the two systems is the IDM circuit. Pin #4 on the CCD TFI module, which was the start circuit input on the Push Start TFI module, is now the IDM signal, sent directly from the TFI module to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer. This signal is still a filtered (low voltage) version of the ignition primary waveform, but is filtered internally in the TFI module rather than through an external resistor. There isn't any start circuit input to the CCD TFI module; the module infers engine cranking from a low rpm input from the PIP signal.
Since these two TFI systems are so significantly different, yet so similar in appearance, parts application problems will inevitably occur. A gray Push Start TFI module will plug right into a CCD system, and vice versa. To make matters worse, parts books are often incorrect on TFI module applications! With the incorrect TFI module installed, the vehicle will run, but drivability and MIL (malfunction indicator lamp) problems will result. For instance, if a gray Push Start TFI module is installed in a CCD system, the computer will not be able to control ignition dwell, and the MIL will illuminate with memory codes for the IDM circuit set, as the gray TFI module is incapable of generating an IDM signal to the computer. If a black CCD TFI module is installed in a Push Start system, dwell will remain fixed, since the SPOUT signal duty cycle never changes. If in doubt about which TFI module belongs on a particular vehicle, consult the ignition system-wiring diagram for the vehicle. If the wire going to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer comes directly from pin #4 of the TFI module, it is a CCD system. If not, it is a Push Start system.



PIP Sensor functionality, testing and replacement:

Revised 17-Jul-2014 to add check for loose PIP mounting screws

The PIP is a Hall Effect magnetic sensor that triggers the TFI and injectors. There is a shutter wheel alternately covers and uncovers a fixed magnet as it rotates. The change in the magnetic field triggers the sensor. A failing PIP sensor will often set code 14 in the computer. They are often heat sensitive, increasing the failure rate as the temperature increases.

Some simple checks to do before replacing the PIP sensor or distributor:
You will need a Multimeter or DVM with good batteries: test or replace them before you get started.. You may also need some extra 16-18 gauge wire to extend the length of the meter’s test leads.
Visual check first: look for chaffed or damaged wiring and loose connector pins in the TFI harness connector.
Check the PIP mounting screws to see if they are loose.
Check the IDM wiring – dark green/yellow wire from the TFI module to pin 4 on the computer. There is a 22K Ohm resistor in the wiring between the TFI and the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 22,000 ohms +/- 10%.
Check the PIP wiring - dark blue from the TFI module to pin 56 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the SPOUT wiring – yellow/lt green from the TFI module to pin 36 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the black/orange wire from the TFI module to pin 16 on the computer. Use an ohmmeter to measure the wire resistance from the TFI to the computer. You should see 0.2-1.5 ohms.
Check the red/green wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch on and the engine not running.
Check the red/blue wire; it should have a steady 12-13 volts with the ignition switch in Start and the engine not running. Watch out for the fan blades when you do this test, since the engine will be cranking.
If you do not find any chaffed or broken wires, high resistance connections or loose pins in the wiring harness, replace the PIP sensor or the distributor.

The PIP sensor is mounted in the bottom of the distributor under the shutter wheel. In stock Ford distributors, you have to press the gear off the distributor shaft to get access to it to replace it.

To remove the gear, first you drive out the roll pin that secures the gear to the shaft. Then you get to press the gear off with a hydraulic press or puller. When you go to press the gear back on, it has to be perfectly lined up with the hole in the gear and shaft. I have been told that the hole for the pin is offset slightly from center and may require some extra examination to get it lined up correctly.

Most guys just end up replacing the distributor with a remanufactured unit for about $75 exchange
PIP problems & diagnostic info
Spark with the SPOUT out, but not with the SPOUT in suggests a PIP problem. The PIP signal level needs to be above 6.5 volts to trigger the computer, but only needs to be 5.75 volts to trigger the TFI module. Hence with a weak PIP signal, you could get spark but no injector pulse. You will need an oscilloscope or graphing DVM to measure the output voltage since it is not a straight DC voltage.

See http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i2_2004.pdf and http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/counterp_v8_i3_2004.pdf for verification of this little detail from Wells, a manufacturer of TFI modules and ignition system products.

 

[General karthief]

the grey/black tfi explanation could be a sticky thing?

 

[imp]

@jrichker I bought the Probst book you mention in the early '90s, after we had bought our first Mustang, an '89. Have used it as a reference over the years. Good book. Troubleshooting section is rather vague, though, as he tries to cover basics applying to a broad range of cars, including Mazda. Thank you for mentioning it. imp

 

[imp]

The "No Spark" has been solved! Part my own fault, part my nephew's lack of experience. He had voltage at the ign. coil in "Key On", but failed to check for voltage in "Start"! Reason was, his choice of feed to the PCM harness from the ign. switch was erroneous. I should have thought of the possibility, but trusted he had the smarts to ascertain correct connection of power. Engine is running, started up with O2 sensors wired in place over the exhaust manifold outlets (no exhaust system yet). Not to my liking, but he only ran it 5 minutes at a time.

Long ago, on another forum, we had hashed over the advisability of starting a brand-new engine which had been sitting for 20+ years. Some insisted the cylinders would be rusted beyond salvage. Some insisted the heads must be removed first. Others maintained the oil would be full of water. My nephew has answered those allegations.

These engines were those 5.0L HOs Ford had over-produced when discontinuing them after '95 Mustang, and sold them through SVO Parts. They were complete to the extent that the only items missing were a starter, they came with everything else installed on the engine, including EGR valve, water pump, oil filter, and pan full of oil. Price was $2195. I have one left. imp

 

[imp]

Re-iterating:

My nephew, Danny, in the Marine Corps, spent Summer in Missouri attending school. In his spare time, he installed a brand-new fuel-injected 5.0L V-8 he had obtained from me in a classic 1965 Ford Galaxie he purchased from his father in law in St. Louis. We conversed every few days as he encountered the numerous obstacles encountered while attempting such a transplant. I've done quite a few, thus I helped all I could. He finally got it running about 2 weeks ago, spent a week in NC while being prepared for an overseas stint in Japan.

Plan was he, his wife, and their cat would drive his 2 year old pickup from St. Louis, towing the Galaxie on an ex-U-Haul car trailer to our place here in AZ, visit a few days, then leave for Seattle, the drop-off point for Japan. His pickup and the car would remain here with us.

This morning after saying good-bye to Cecelia's parents they departed for their first stop, in Kansas, to see Danny's Dad, via I-70. About 1/4 of the way to Lawrence, KS, while passing a semi-trailer truck, the truck's rear tires nudged Danny's trailer, according to a trucker's statement who had been behind them, throwing the pickup/trailer combination into a violent fish-tailing condition, the pickup hitting the concrete abutment wall along the inner lane, the Galaxie lurching forward to hit the rear of the pickup bed.

Danny was not cited. No one was hurt, physically, but mentally, I can't even imagine how he must feel. The ups and downs he experienced working on the car all summer, to have culminated in this. The pickup is totaled, he believes the Galaxie may be also; it will be trucked back to St. Louis and left with his father in law, who had nurtured and owned the car for many years. Can't imagine how he must feel.

I almost cry when I think about how this must be affecting Danny.
imp

 

[90sickfox]

Thats really bad news....but not as bad as it could be.

I hope the car can be saved.

 

[General karthief]

He deserves a hardship leave.
Thank him for his service, sorry about the car.
Oh, and the truck too.

 

[imp]

Thats really bad news....but not as bad as it could be.

I hope the car can be saved.

@90sickfox @karthief
Guys, here's more to the story. A few weeks ago, Danny received a letter from GM in which they admitted owners of this Chevy pickup having Electric Power Steering were experiencing steering episodes frightening enough to cause them to bring the truck in to the Dealership, even paying for repairs themselves. A recall was prepared therefore. The "fix" is a "reprogramming of the Power Steering Electronic Module". Sounds dubious, to me.

After the shock of his losing 2 vehicles wore off today, I realized the cause of him losing control may have been the fault of GM's gross design error. I emailed him this evening to ask his insurer if they were aware of the recall. imp

 

[90sickfox]

A bunch of cars have been having issues with the electronic steering assist systems.

We had an f150 spontaneously break while doing a caster sweep on an alignment rack.

Electronic steering and lane departure warnings are in the same box with me. Regular hydraulic systems have worked well for many years. There are even gear reduction systems that make turning a vehicle feel just like having power steering. The lane departure warning is just stupid...if a driver is paying attention ( like he's supposed to ) then there's no need for a freaking lane departure warning...or accident avoidance where the car hits the brakes for you. What is this world coming to.

Electronic throttle bodies have been killing people since they first came out.

OK my rant is over...

 

[General karthief]

A bunch of cars have been having issues with the electronic steering assist systems.

We had an f150 spontaneously break while doing a caster sweep on an alignment rack.

Electronic steering and lane departure warnings are in the same box with me. Regular hydraulic systems have worked well for many years. There are even gear reduction systems that make turning a vehicle feel just like having power steering. The lane departure warning is just stupid...if a driver is paying attention ( like he's supposed to ) then there's no need for a freaking lane departure warning...or accident avoidance where the car hits the brakes for you. What is this world coming to.

Electronic throttle bodies have been killing people since they first came out.

OK my rant is over...

No it's not, you just need to take a breath.

 

[imp]

Electronic throttle bodies have been killing people since they first came out.

I'm inclined to add today's ABS systems to the list of the ridiculous, too. They completely take away the driver's use of the brakes by pumping fluid pressure into the Master Cylinder, rendering driver effort on the brake pedal useless. Further, they are programmed to "kill" the vehicle under certain ABS failure circumstances. Not making it up, happened to me, 2004 Explorer. imp

 

[General karthief]

Safety features build into cars started out with good intentions, they still have good intentions but there is an underlying reason for them now. With cars being more efficient, quieter, more comfortable and yes, faster, drivers are more in tuned to their own 'little world', radios with small screens that tell you the name of the 'song' and the 'artist', even capable of 'music' videos, navigation, bluetooth, internet access all result in drivers that pay little attention to the JOB of piloting a pile of death down an asphalt path. Yes, todays technology is needed because people are too busy in their personal importance to realize that operating a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Bullitt347]

I'm inclined to add today's ABS systems to the list of the ridiculous, too. They completely take away the driver's use of the brakes by pumping fluid pressure into the Master Cylinder, rendering driver effort on the brake pedal useless. Further, they are programmed to "kill" the vehicle under certain ABS failure circumstances. Not making it up, happened to me, 2004 Explorer. imp

Had something similar happen to me the other day. 2016 Eco-boost Focus, make a hard left turn onto a freeway on-ramp, rear steps out just a bit, I tap the brakes and then stand on the gas...except there is no throttle response at all, for maybe 2 seconds (seems like a lot longer) The engine just idled until the car was straight again. Was kind of surprised by being overruled by electronics. Some of the stuff they do to cars now is just retarded. Chrysler products that will not shut off unless the shift lever/selector is in park, M/B cars that will slam the trans into park if you open the drivers door, even if the car is moving, Headlights that are on if the engine is on, and you cannot turn them off, the headlamp switch does nothing if the engine is running, Some Kia or Hyundias that will not let the doors be unlocked once the car is moving, unless you continually press the unlock switch about 10 times in a row, The GM trucks and SUV's that make the drivers seat vibrate if you get close to an object while backing up, even though you have 3 mirrors and a back-up camera, the Toyotas that have the "R" icon on the shift selector flash the whole time the car is in reverse. I can go on and on. It is downright annoying. The first thing I did on my Focus after buying it was get the owners manual out and follow the directions on turning off the "auto door locks". Sheesh.

 

[General karthief]

THE most annoying thing about a new car is that payment every month!

 

[jrichker]

Had something similar happen to me the other day. 2016 Eco-boost Focus, make a hard left turn onto a freeway on-ramp, rear steps out just a bit, I tap the brakes and then stand on the gas...except there is no throttle response at all, for maybe 2 seconds (seems like a lot longer) The engine just idled until the car was straight again. Was kind of surprised by being overruled by electronics. Some of the stuff they do to cars now is just retarded. Chrysler products that will not shut off unless the shift lever/selector is in park, M/B cars that will slam the trans into park if you open the drivers door, even if the car is moving, Headlights that are on if the engine is on, and you cannot turn them off, the headlamp switch does nothing if the engine is running, Some Kia or Hyundias that will not let the doors be unlocked once the car is moving, unless you continually press the unlock switch about 10 times in a row, The GM trucks and SUV's that make the drivers seat vibrate if you get close to an object while backing up, even though you have 3 mirrors and a back-up camera, the Toyotas that have the "R" icon on the shift selector flash the whole time the car is in reverse. I can go on and on. It is downright annoying. The first thing I did on my Focus after buying it was get the owners manual out and follow the directions on turning off the "auto door locks". Sheesh.

Now you have another reason to appreciate your Mustang... It puts YOU in command...