Shorty headers
- Thread starter divad82
- Start date
SpartaPerformance
10 Year Member
So wait until long tubes are in the budget, spending the money on shorties and paying labor to install or busting your own knuckles to install just for sound and 3HP is not worth it IMEO.
Is there any performance difference between tuned length like the BBK or JBA over the Ford Racing or Pypes? Those two don't look much better than stock manifolds. I would think that the others would help a bit more. I know that nothing is going to perform like LT's but they aren't an option for everyone. California emissions testing sucks.
Since you have to run a tune with headers it's almost impossible to get an honest dyno test out of any company that makes them. I think the closest I have seen is the JBA. They say what was on the car for the baseline. If you can believe the tests they seem to be alright.
Since you have to run a tune with headers it's almost impossible to get an honest dyno test out of any company that makes them. I think the closest I have seen is the JBA. They say what was on the car for the baseline. If you can believe the tests they seem to be alright.
SpartaPerformance
10 Year Member
Ok, I'll go out a limb and disagree here. No, the short tubes don't add peak hp. What they do, from all the articles I've read about them in S197s, is move the power curve into the lower rpm range. Basically you'll gain mid-range hp from shorties and top end hp from LTs on the S197. Which is why everyone says they're worthless, because you don't see a peak hp increase which is what everyone quotes from dyno sessions. (The cars tested already had a CAI and tune, as well as pulleys I believe, so not sure if yours is stock). I'll look at a set of these eventually because I want to increase actual performance on the street and am not worried about winning a numbers game on the dyno or getting the best peak hp for high rpm situations at the track.
SpartaPerformance
10 Year Member
I disagree because of how exhaust functions. The whole reason why you get more HP, by changing headers is scavenging. LT's scavenge FAAAAAAAARRR more then shorties. As for "articles" in magazines remember those performance parts manufacturers pay thousands of dollars a year to advertise in those rags, articles are written "creatively".
Agreed that shorties don't add much (if anything) for top end power.
How much hp / torque (HP/torque curves vs. RPM) do the long tubes typically add (NA and SC) on a 3Valve application?
Which sets have the D shaped port that match the 3V heads?
Do they require special cats?
Do they require special O2 harnesses?
Which brands are the best for long tubes?
How much hp / torque (HP/torque curves vs. RPM) do the long tubes typically add (NA and SC) on a 3Valve application?
Which sets have the D shaped port that match the 3V heads?
Do they require special cats?
Do they require special O2 harnesses?
Which brands are the best for long tubes?
I didn't say they flowed better, or added more top end hp. But, since I've read in magazines as well that the LTs actually lose a little hp and torque @ low rpms due to lack of back pressure, it's probably not accurate either. I'm sure the magazines were paid to provide that info too. Hence why allowing some more flow via shorties would help midrange. LTs provide the most hp at high rpms, especially with forced induction, because that's where the additinal scavenging they provide gives the most benefit. Why does everyone throw fits if someone says something good about shorties, that doesn't mean they think they're better than LTs. I know for a DD application in the low to mid rpm range the LTs are a significantly larger waste of $ than shorties.
Sparta: Sincerely, I will thank you for not selling shorties since you so adamently disagree with them, otherwise you destroy your whole business. Only sell products you believe in!
Sparta: Sincerely, I will thank you for not selling shorties since you so adamently disagree with them, otherwise you destroy your whole business. Only sell products you believe in!
Long Tube guys ... Where are the numbers? ... all this talk and no graphs?
I'm serously thinking about a set of long tubes, but would like to see some numbers before I go to the expense and effort of the switch.
SpartaPerformance
10 Year Member
The only graph I have is my smile the 1st time I floored the gas and the car pulled hard like a whipped mule from 3k to 6.5K RPM
<-- Kinda like that one.The only graph I have is my smile the 1st time I floored the gas and the car pulled hard like a whipped mule from 3k to 6.5K RPM
I will agree that long tubes are great in the correct application. For DD NA street car that isn't going to be run up to 6k plus for every shift they would be a waste of time and money.
Adding a little more in the low to mid rpm's is what I would prefer for a DD. If tuned shorties will do that then I am good with it.
Due to difficulty of install or paying someone to install them they would be low on the list but they would be on the list.
The only graph I have is my smile the 1st time I floored the gas and the car pulled hard like a whipped mule from 3k to 6.5K RPM
Long Tubes will make it pull like a whipped mule? Long tubes will add like what 20-30 hp N/A, 30-50 hp SC'd? That's a pretty lame mule. A Whipple, Kenne Bell, TVS, centri, turbo, or NOS, or 3:73 or 4:10 gears will make it pull hard like a whipped mule, not LT's.
I figured that no one would come back with dyno graphs ... just hot air.
I know JBA's have the D-shaped ports, that there are some LT's that come with high flow cats, some that don't. I know there is lot of variation in the lengths of the LT's, and that there is alot of dyno data out there on LT's.
If you really want to sell headers ... then put some real data (or links to it) in the posts instead of hot air. You also may want to consider why someone would even consider shorties over long tubes .... like smog issues? You might make a few bucks on shorties in those cases.
As a performance parts business owner you should think more about promoting your' parts instead of slamming a potential customer that doesn't share your views. If you do, then at least have the data to back it up.
I have a quickie question - I have "shorties" / pypes on my 07 Gt - I just blew the pass side exhaust gasket or it just 'let-go' - a guy I work with said to double them up - will this help? or is it useless - and should I change both sides - the pass is easier than the drivers (the drivers side sucks on my garage floor) - ......sorry to go slightly off topic.....had to use shorties ....emissions here in AZ - I'll have to put the stock H pipe back on once I get called in....
Longtube headers do not require a tune. I trust Brenspeed and that's what they told me.
