Should I Change to longtubes?

5spd GT · Mar 2, 2006

Brian - You also did another change at the same time I'm sure you also did some other tricks possibly...whether really small or not. Plus I'm sure you drove it a bit better. I have ran 3mph from one track time to the other...no changes except an alternator

feifong · Mar 2, 2006

Why not go 1 5/8 headers why 1 3/4?????

thegabrielles · Mar 2, 2006

1 3/4 are bigger, which means better flow.

I dont even think they make long tubes in 1 5/8 do they???
Shorties, when they first came out with them in the 80's were 1 5/8, they flowed better than stock only because they have smooth bends adn non-crimped pipes, then came the 1 3/4. Much better flow. Then they upped it to 1 3/4 equal length pipes, this ensured equal flow to teh pipes fro each cylinder which resulted in a more efficient engine.

Bottom line, better flow!!!

Rynb15 · Mar 2, 2006

thanks for all the replies guys. Ya, when he told me they were flowmaster headers i didnt really believe him.When i looked at them i thought they might just be crappy shorties. I had a camaro before this and the stock manifolds were a lot worse than these ones. Now i just need to decide on shorties or longtubes. How much harder is it to install longtubes?????

thegabrielles · Mar 2, 2006

The drivers side is the worst because of the steering rod. The shorties are a quick bolt in, you dont have to worry about o2 sensor wire extenders and routing them around the steering rod, or getting them around the starter on the passenger side. Probably about an hour extra work, but it depends on you.

Mavrick · Mar 3, 2006

With the same size primary tubes, longtubes will make better horse power and torque accross the board than shorties.

With my longtubes, the drivers side went in without a snag from the bottom. The passenger side was pretty tight, involved some cursing.

You don't need 1 3/4" longtubes until your making a lot of horse power.. 1 5/8" should be good for ~400hp.

04sleeper · Mar 3, 2006

Mavrick said:
With the same size primary tubes, longtubes will make better horse power and torque accross the board than shorties.

With my longtubes, the drivers side went in without a snag from the bottom. The passenger side was pretty tight, involved some cursing.

You don't need 1 3/4" longtubes until your making a lot of horse power.. 1 5/8" should be good for ~400hp.

I would not agree with that statement completly.

I would say it depends on the LT. I have seen a friends very stout N/A 331 make 390 RWHP with 1 5/8" FRPP shorties and switch to 1 3/4" BBK LT and gained nothing across the board.

Only until he switched to collectors for better (non ball joint) ones, did he gain. Once he switched he gained 15 RWHP and made 405.

So I would not say that all LT's will make more power.

There are a lot more variables to take into consideration then just making the switch.

For me I have had several street cars with LT's and would never do it again. JMHO.

5spd GT · Mar 3, 2006

Gabrielles - I have 1 5/8 longtubes under my bed right now...I guess they make them

Outweigh the pros and cons. Longtubes make a tick more power, but look at all the cons involved with them. Think how bad you want that extra little bit.

IntenseBlue · Mar 3, 2006

I've never heard of anyone that's thanged from shorties to longtubes and wished they hadn't. EVER. Gabrielles, you're not to bright. 1 3/4 headers do flow more than 1 5/8. No ****. AFR 225s flow better than 165s. Go put both sets of heads on two 302s and see what happens.

IntenseBlue · Mar 3, 2006

The starter of this thread still has stock headers, which means he's probably got the stock heads still. Ported or not, 1 5/8" headers are going to make more average horsepower and probably peak than do a set of 1 3/4"

5spd GT · Mar 3, 2006

IntenseBlue - You'll see the AFR 165's outperform the AFR 225's.

I may be one that regrets putting on longtubes over shorties. We are talking about cars that see more than track here...what advantage do longtubes have over shorties besides possibly a tick more power and a quicker change H-pipe (not really applicable everyday)? Shorties beat them in every other category and stay right with them in power...

25thmustang · Mar 3, 2006

5spd GT said:
Brian - You also did another change at the same time I'm sure you also did some other tricks possibly...whether really small or not. Plus I'm sure you drove it a bit better. I have ran 3mph from one track time to the other...no changes except an alternator

The old combo was Mac 1 5/8 Shorties, into a Mac 2 1/2" catted H. Like this the car ran 13.89 (I think it was an 89 either way it was a high 13.8x) at 98 mph. I then added the Mac 1 5/8" LTs, and Mac 2 1/2" Prochamber. Along with that I dropped in pulleys. My next track visit the car ran a 13.26 @ 101 on the first pass, and 13.21 @ 101 by the end of the day. Shortly after that I put some subframes on and went 13.0 @ 103 at a better track. Im sure my driving did improve some in that time (I will say between the 13.8 and 13.2 I only drove the car very little on the street and I dont work on my driving on the street for fear of wrecking or getting caught) and since then has gotten better!

I cant say for sure the LTs helped, but I actually had a better seat of the pants feel doing those mods than I got when I put the valves in the heads (granted I had issues with the car right after that).

I will say not everyone will see huge gains, or even any gains, as I have NO idea why my car responded like it did with the LTs and other things I did. I personally will probably only run LTs on my cars from now on unless I run NMRA and have to run shortys for class rules!

25thmustang · Mar 3, 2006

Also on an unlowered car I have had no scraping issues with mine, and love being able to throw mid pipes on it 5 minutes! I have the stock starter and never had an issue with it, but do have the rubbing steering shaft (I blame it on 1989 142,000 mile motor mounts). LTs for me have also helped me keep header bolts from backing out. It might have been the issue that Mac headers have (my old shorties were mac) with individual flanges that backed them out, but I hagve gone through a lot of header gaskets on this car (not as many with the LTs)!

There are lots of downsides and positives to each. I got my headers for a bargain, so couldnt pass them up, and saw huge gains and have been happy with them ever since, but Im sure there are guys saying the same about shorties. You have to weigh what you want and decide from that...

My vote goes for LTs!

IntenseBlue · Mar 3, 2006

5spd GT said:
IntenseBlue - You'll see the AFR 165's outperform the AFR 225's.

I may be one that regrets putting on longtubes over shorties. We are talking about cars that see more than track here...what advantage do longtubes have over shorties besides possibly a tick more power and a quicker change H-pipe (not really applicable everyday)? Shorties beat them in every other category and stay right with them in power...

I know the 165s will outperform the 225s. That was my point. He was saying 1 3/4s are better than 1 5/8" just because they flow more.

5spd GT · Mar 3, 2006

IntenseBlue said:
I know the 165s will outperform the 225s. That was my point. He was saying 1 3/4s are better than 1 5/8" just because they flow more.

My point was to agree with your point

5spd GT · Mar 3, 2006

25thmustang said:
The old combo was Mac 1 5/8 Shorties, into a Mac 2 1/2" catted H. Like this the car ran 13.89 (I think it was an 89 either way it was a high 13.8x) at 98 mph. I then added the Mac 1 5/8" LTs, and Mac 2 1/2" Prochamber. Along with that I dropped in pulleys. My next track visit the car ran a 13.26 @ 101 on the first pass, and 13.21 @ 101 by the end of the day. Shortly after that I put some subframes on and went 13.0 @ 103 at a better track. Im sure my driving did improve some in that time (I will say between the 13.8 and 13.2 I only drove the car very little on the street and I dont work on my driving on the street for fear of wrecking or getting caught) and since then has gotten better!

I cant say for sure the LTs helped, but I actually had a better seat of the pants feel doing those mods than I got when I put the valves in the heads (granted I had issues with the car right after that).

I will say not everyone will see huge gains, or even any gains, as I have NO idea why my car responded like it did with the LTs and other things I did. I personally will probably only run LTs on my cars from now on unless I run NMRA and have to run shortys for class rules!

Yeah, you gained 3mph by adding longtubes, a better flowing midpipe (because you lost the cats and the design of the prochamber is better than an H in terms of flow), plus you added pullies which I know is a SOTP feel.

Your E.T. seems to be based on track prep/traction. I wouldn't say you gained .5 tenths of a second when you added longtubes. Appears to be a bit more to it than that...

5spd GT · Mar 3, 2006

25thmustang said:
Also on an unlowered car I have had no scraping issues with mine, and love being able to throw mid pipes on it 5 minutes! I have the stock starter and never had an issue with it, but do have the rubbing steering shaft (I blame it on 1989 142,000 mile motor mounts). LTs for me have also helped me keep header bolts from backing out. It might have been the issue that Mac headers have (my old shorties were mac) with individual flanges that backed them out, but I hagve gone through a lot of header gaskets on this car (not as many with the LTs)!

There are lots of downsides and positives to each. I got my headers for a bargain, so couldnt pass them up, and saw huge gains and have been happy with them ever since, but Im sure there are guys saying the same about shorties. You have to weigh what you want and decide from that...

My vote goes for LTs!

My car is barely lower than factory, I know I'm going to rub on some things I come across. Dips in the road, speed bumps especially. That flange sticks "out".

I'm actually quiet surprised you haven't rubbed anything with the 'box' on the prochamber. A friend of mine does that on occasion. In fact all 4 of them do....

86bluecobra · Mar 3, 2006

do you have a hoist to install the headers? i'm sure guys are going to tell you they have installed them on jack stands but unless you have accses to a hoist i would say just get some shortie headers. easy to install. no issue's with speed bumps after you lower your car. easier to get to starter. not so much heat around starter so as to fry the thing.

25thmustang · Mar 3, 2006

Well the Prochamber has hit a few things, but these are speeed bumps at my school and my friends beach house neighborhood... More or less HUGE speed bumps that my 4 cyl scrapes on and everyone elses cars do as well (yes almost everyones car scrapes on these things).

The LTs themselves have yet to hit anything, its always the H-pipe (and only on these speed bumps, not on the street) which would happen with shorties as well!

Oh I know I had more done than just the LTs. But I do think thats one of the big factors into how much faster it went. The pullies I would say did very little, and the Prochamber and LTs I give about half credit each. The track prep differences are mute from the 13.8 to the 13.2... it was very similar conditions (might have been better on the 13.8 pass) but the 13.0 was in better conditions.

All in all like said before, hes going to make his own mind up... I just share my story here to help in the decision making!

Should I Change to longtubes?

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