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Smoke and Carbon

  • Thread starter Thread starter SoCal69GT
  • Start date Start date Apr 18, 2006
S

SoCal69GT

New Member
Aug 3, 2004
105
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0
Oceanside, CA
Apr 18, 2006
#1
  • Apr 18, 2006
  • #1
I have a 1969 with 351W that I barely use. When I started my mustang, it started idling kinda rough and smokey at the exhaust. When I pulled back into the garage I noticed a lot of carbon on the floor and walls were the end of the exhaust was pointing at. Do you guys know what the problem might be?

I was told by a friend that "it sounds like it needs new valve stem seals. When the car is shut off after running, it sucks a little oil past the valve stem, settles on top of the piston and burns off when the car is restarted."

Is this pretty much what the problem is? If so, what kind of work is involved?
 

jdowen2

New Member
Dec 18, 2005
48
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0
Mesa, Az
Apr 18, 2006
#2
  • Apr 18, 2006
  • #2
If you have black soot that means carbon deposits. You're running rich. If you don't drive it regularly your floats may be sticking. Drive it for 20/30 minutes then check the exhaust. Might want to try some Seafoam.
 

mudbilly

Member
Jun 3, 2005
175
0
16
South County, Maryland
Apr 19, 2006
#3
  • Apr 19, 2006
  • #3
an easy way to check for valve seal leaks:

have someone drive behind you as you are going down a hill, keep it in gear take your foot off the gas......if the seals are bad, oil will be sucked into the pistons and your buddy will see the smoke coming out of the exhaust
 
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SoCal69GT

New Member
Aug 3, 2004
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Oceanside, CA
Apr 19, 2006
#4
  • Apr 19, 2006
  • #4
Pardon my ignorance, I'm kinda new to the internal of the motor. So it it needs new seals, what kind of work is involved. Do I need to take the heads off and take it to a machine shop? Or can this be done a by a rookie?
 

302 coupe

Founding Member
Mar 2, 2000
1,952
3
36
Macon, Ga.
Apr 19, 2006
#5
  • Apr 19, 2006
  • #5
you could do it, its not hard, but does require a basic understanding of the valvetrain. The heads do not need to be removed. The valve covers, rocker arms, and springs will need to be removed though. If you're interested in doing it yourself, I can give more details. Probably take 4-5 hours to do.
 

milner351

Founding Member
Jun 12, 2002
92
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The Motor City
Apr 19, 2006
#6
  • Apr 19, 2006
  • #6
If a car sits a while, like winter storage, there will be a good bit of condensation in the exhaust and the typical rich start up required to start cold with the choke on.
All old cars I know of will leave black marks where the tail pipes exit on the floor or wall from initial cold start or revving with condensation in the pipes.

The valve stem seal advice above is good, but you may not need it. Drive it a while, watch your rear view on decels, and check oil consumption.
 

milner351

Founding Member
Jun 12, 2002
92
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The Motor City
Apr 19, 2006
#7
  • Apr 19, 2006
  • #7
PS, your avatar is killing me!
 
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SoCal69GT

New Member
Aug 3, 2004
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Oceanside, CA
Apr 19, 2006
#8
  • Apr 19, 2006
  • #8
302 coupe said:
you could do it, its not hard, but does require a basic understanding of the valvetrain. The heads do not need to be removed. The valve covers, rocker arms, and springs will need to be removed though. If you're interested in doing it yourself, I can give more details. Probably take 4-5 hours to do.
Click to expand...

That's great news that the heads doesn't need to be removed. That would be helpful too if you can give me some info on how to replace the seals. Thanks a lot.
 
L

limey66

Member
Sep 23, 2004
408
0
16
Northampton, England
Apr 20, 2006
#9
  • Apr 20, 2006
  • #9
To change the valve stem seals with the heads on is a bit of a ball ache, but I've seen it done by feeding string into the spark plug hole to fill the space, then turning the engine over by hand to TDC (or as far as the string will compress). You can now press down on the valve spring retainer to release the collets (I think you call them valve locks), remove the spring, slide off the old seal, slide on the new one, put the spring and retainer back on, and re-seat the locks. Then you can pull the string out and move onto the next one.

Personally, I think I'd pull the heads and use the proper tool - that way you can check everything out while you're at it.

Any other ideas folks?
 

302 coupe

Founding Member
Mar 2, 2000
1,952
3
36
Macon, Ga.
Apr 20, 2006
#10
  • Apr 20, 2006
  • #10
SoCal69GT said:
That's great news that the heads doesn't need to be removed. That would be helpful too if you can give me some info on how to replace the seals. Thanks a lot.
Click to expand...

Remove valve covers, remove spark plugs, label rocker arms and hardware and remove, to later be installed in the same location. You need a good quality valvespring compressor, I use a sears craftsman that has two fingers with hooks and threaded T handle bolt. Pretty self explanatory how to use it. Hook it onto the spring at the bottom, put the top part on the spring retainer plate, tighten it down, it compresses the spring, voila. Before compressing and removing the valvespring, you need a means of holding valves closed so they won't fall down into the cylinder. My technique involves the use of air pressure in the cylinder. I use an air compressor and a fitting that screws into the spark plug hole. The fittings can be bought off of the specialty rack at some parts stores, or you can get a compression tester kit, and use the fitting thats included, also use the short piece of air hose, they usually have a quick coupler that makes hooking your air compressor hose to it a snap. Now fill the cylinder with air pressure, 50-100 psi works well, don't be surprised if the engine turns over until the piston for the cylinder you're working is at the bottom of the bore. Put the valvespring compressor on and and compress the spring. You'll need to pop the valve locks (2 small C shaped tapered thingies) loose, normally a little tap with a screwdriver works well, then use some needle nose pliars to remove them from their seat in the valespring retainer. They are small, don't lose them. With the locks removed, the spring and retainer can be pulled off of the head. You need to keep air pressure in the cylinder during all this, leave the cylinder pressurized until both valvespring assemblies are re-installed. If you lose air pressue, the valves will fall down into the cylinder, then you'll have to pull the heads off to retrieve them. With the spring removed, all you have to do is pull the seal off of the valve and slide the new one on. With the valvespring still compressed, place it back on the head, decompress it slightly and re-install the valve locks. make sure the valve locks are seated properly, use the needle nose pliars to wiggle them into place. Full decompress the spring, and check again to make sure the locks are seated on the valve tip. Its pretty easy to get 'em right, but you want to make absolutely sure. Remove the air hose and pressure from cylinder. Re-install the appropriate rocker arm and hardware. After you do the first one, you'll be able to move along pretty good with the rest, its all simple and logical. Once all 16 seals are replaced, go back and set valve lash. Reinstall spark plugs, valve covers, etc.
 

brianj5600

Active Member
Sep 19, 2003
1,964
2
39
Middle TN
Apr 20, 2006
#11
  • Apr 20, 2006
  • #11
If it is not consuming a quart of oil per 3000mi, I would not worry about it, too much hassle. I would look at the carb. Too rich is common on any car with a carb. Or just put a piece of cardboard behind the car to catch the black specs. I would not sweat it.
 
P

palerider94

Member
Feb 21, 2006
573
1
19
Apr 20, 2006
#12
  • Apr 20, 2006
  • #12
I had the same problem - floats were stuck on carb put new carb on problem is gone. I would check fuel level in carb. On the holley there is a recessed screw on the side if you take off and gas pouring out either floats set too high or bad. I would have a a small puddle of soot, gas and water at the back of mine evry time I would start after it sat for awhile till i corrected the problem. Good luck
 
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