So Confused On Trick Flow Heads?

NIKwoaC · May 29, 2012

Noobz347 said:
Peter Puffer

AFM N-51P 228/238 .499/.4976 w/ 1.6 rocker 110

I think he was looking for the 41, but regardless, that cam sucks. What is it, a flat tappet cam? (<-sarcasm) Anybody in this day and age running a respectable aluminum head and intake should be looking for a roller cam with .550 lift or better. More lift, less duration, you end up with the same "area under the curve", which means good performance with good drivability. It's how the LS guys do it, they're all running HR cams with gobs of lift. Some of the stock LS cams actually have more lift than that cam listed.

Noobz347 · May 29, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
I think he was looking for the 41, but regardless, that cam sucks. What is it, a flat tappet cam? (<-sarcasm) Anybody in this day and age running a respectable aluminum head and intake should be looking for a roller cam with .550 lift or better. More lift, less duration, you end up with the same "area under the curve", which means good performance with good drivability. It's how the LS guys do it, they're all running HR cams with gobs of lift. Some of the stock LS cams actually have more lift than that cam listed.

Ooops... you're right. He did say N41 and not N51.

AFM N-41 - 222*/232* - 278*/286* - .512"/.512" - .320"/.320" - 110* - 106*/114*
Overlap: 62 degrees.
1.6 Rocker Ratio
Intake Opening: 1* BTDC
Intake Closing: 41* ABDC
Exhaust Opening: 45* BBDC
Exhaust Closing: 5* BTDC

fiveohlover · May 29, 2012

NIKwoaC said:
I think he was looking for the 41, but regardless, that cam sucks. What is it, a flat tappet cam? (<-sarcasm) Anybody in this day and age running a respectable aluminum head and intake should be looking for a roller cam with .550 lift or better. More lift, less duration, you end up with the same "area under the curve", which means good performance with good drivability. It's how the LS guys do it, they're all running HR cams with gobs of lift. Some of the stock LS cams actually have more lift than that cam listed.

i have never heard of a anderson ford cam sucking? always herd good things about them

NIKwoaC · May 29, 2012

fiveohlover said:
i have never heard of a anderson ford cam sucking? always herd good things about them

There are a whole shlew of them, and while I don't know the specs for many of them, I am sure there are some good ones in there for most combos. The two above cams actually would be ok for a set of heads that didn't flow well much above .500 lift, where a .550+ lift cam would be pointless. But you're looking to buy a nice set of heads that can take advantage of "high" lift, so in that application those two cams, IMO would be a poor choice.

fiveohlover · May 29, 2012

so definitely get a custom cam then or do you have any other recommendations for cams a little cheaper?

NIKwoaC · May 30, 2012

fiveohlover said:
so definitely get a custom cam then or do you have any other recommendations for cams a little cheaper?

The cam is the cheapest component of the H/C/I, there is no reason to skimp out on it. Consider that you might only save $100 by trying to cheap out on a cam, but your cylinder heads will cost 5 times as much as a good cam. Hell, any money you try to save from cheaping out on a cam, you'll have spent filling up the gas tank the first two times. I would always suggest a custom, but there are some decent OTS cams out there. Comp's XE line, the Lunati VooDoo, and I know some of the Anderson cams would be good pieces, too. However, if you go with a custom from someone like Ed Curtis, he can guide you in the right direction for your power goals, and even set you up with cylinder heads with a matching valvetrain. You can also do this through TEA, which is where I got my stuff, they are the guys who do all the CNC port work for TrickFlow. TEA helped me plan my entire build, they set up a badass valvetrain for me, helped me spec out a custom cam, and since I got my heads and intake from them, they had everything CNC port matched so everything lined up perfectly when I assembled it. That's the beauty of going through a company like that, you're not just buying random parts off the shelf and throwing them together.

fiveohlover · May 30, 2012

how much would a custom cam and valvetrain with port matched heads and intake cost for either total engine airflow, or Ed Curtis?

fiveohwblow · May 30, 2012

Contact Ed. What's the worst that can happen? He gives you a quote

fiveohlover · May 30, 2012

ok so getting the heads and intake ported will probably is going to cost a lot over the price of just the parts themselves, is it worth the time and money on getting everything ported. How much more power will i make with getting everything ported. Can i get my 330-350 hp to the tire power goals by just geting a custom cam and not geting everything port matched?

fiveohwblow · May 30, 2012

I have seen 4 trick flow top end kit bolt on 5.0's make between 310-320 on a dyno jet. I would ASSUME, emphasis on the assume, that you could tune it with a custom cam to 330. I dont see how you couldn't pick up 10 Hp. However, if you want to assure you get there, get everything port and gasket matched. A step further and get you closer to the 350, get a stage 3 message on the heads and custom cam.

tannerc91gt · May 31, 2012

was this thread not just the same question over and over and over and ov...

these are the types of threads that drive me insane on this site, and im sure i used to contribute but it appears every thread that pops up is
"what will this random bolt on part do?"
"my new shifter"
and "how much horsepower will this list of parts i compiled by blindly poking at a summit catalog make?"

I dont see why people arent more interested in LEARNING why these parts do what they do and how they interact and actually gaining a mechanical knowledge and understanding as opposed to "I want XXX horsepower, someone spew off a list of chit that will get me there"

There's much to be learned by everyone on this board (myself in all my infinite internet wisdom included), so it'd be great to see threads turn into teaching and less into a pissing contest or 3-4 guys chasing each other around the forum to piss eachother off.

To the OP, while this comment isnt meant as an attack on you, arent you the least bit interested in WHY these heads you're dead set on with the random shelf cams youve chosen will or will not work together? or maybe why you'd be looking for certain cam/head specs to meet your goal? or is that part of the hobby dead by now?

/rant

NIKwoaC · May 31, 2012

IIRC, having the intake manifold port matched to the cylinder heads was $150. That's really all the port matching you need if you're going with a nice CNC head. Keep in mind that in my case we're talking about 205s, which have enormous ports, and getting the intake matched to them is a no brainer, because there would have been a big mismatch without it. With a smaller port cylinder head, like a 185 or a FAC 190, it may not be such an issue, I don't know.

tannerc91gt said:
was this thread not just the same question over and over and over and ov...

these are the types of threads that drive me insane on this site, and im sure i used to contribute but it appears every thread that pops up is
"what will this random bolt on part do?"
"my new shifter"
and "how much horsepower will this list of parts i compiled by blindly poking at a summit catalog make?"

I dont see why people arent more interested in LEARNING why these parts do what they do and how they interact and actually gaining a mechanical knowledge and understanding as opposed to "I want XXX horsepower, someone spew off a list of chit that will get me there"

There's much to be learned by everyone on this board (myself in all my infinite internet wisdom included), so it'd be great to see threads turn into teaching and less into a pissing contest or 3-4 guys chasing each other around the forum to **** eachother off.

To the OP, while this comment isnt meant as an attack on you, arent you the least bit interested in WHY these heads you're dead set on with the random shelf cams youve chosen will or will not work together? or maybe why you'd be looking for certain cam/head specs to meet your goal? or is that part of the hobby dead by now?

/rant

+1

Rick 91GT · May 31, 2012

Personally the money to port match the head to the intake is worth very little, sometimes nothing....now milling the intake sot he top of the roof matches the head is important. I lost intereste 2 pages in and skipped to the last page here....

Did you already buy parts? Which ones? Any decent custom cam I am swapping the springs out on the TFS 170 heads.

fiveohlover · May 31, 2012

no i didnt buy them yet. I am looking at either fac 190, tfs 185 cnc, or the afr 158. And what head will give me a 10.5:1 cp , i looked on a calculator and i typed in the 58cc chambers off of the tfs 185 heads with a stock flat top piston and got a 10.39 cp with a 0.040 head gasket. Is this correct 58cc chamber seems kind of small.

fiveohlover · May 31, 2012

tannerc91gt said:
was this thread not just the same question over and over and over and ov...

these are the types of threads that drive me insane on this site, and im sure i used to contribute but it appears every thread that pops up is
"what will this random bolt on part do?"
"my new shifter"
and "how much horsepower will this list of parts i compiled by blindly poking at a summit catalog make?"

I dont see why people arent more interested in LEARNING why these parts do what they do and how they interact and actually gaining a mechanical knowledge and understanding as opposed to "I want XXX horsepower, someone spew off a list of chit that will get me there"

There's much to be learned by everyone on this board (myself in all my infinite internet wisdom included), so it'd be great to see threads turn into teaching and less into a pissing contest or 3-4 guys chasing each other around the forum to **** eachother off.

To the OP, while this comment isnt meant as an attack on you, arent you the least bit interested in WHY these heads you're dead set on with the random shelf cams youve chosen will or will not work together? or maybe why you'd be looking for certain cam/head specs to meet your goal? or is that part of the hobby dead by now?

/rant

Yes i want to learn about the heads. But most of this thread was a big argument and i have been having a hard time getting people to answer my questions. My original question was whats the difference between the 170, the 185 and the fac 190. and track heats valves spring vs regular valve springs. can somoening teach me about thees things and how they affect my performance?

Rick 91GT · May 31, 2012

fiveohlover said:
no i didnt buy them yet. I am looking at either fac 190, tfs 185 cnc, or the afr 158. And what head will give me a 10.5:1 cp , i looked on a calculator and i typed in the 58cc chambers off of the tfs 185 heads with a stock flat top piston and got a 10.39 cp with a 0.040 head gasket. Is this correct 58cc chamber seems kind of small.

With a 8.2 deck, 3" stroke, 5.09" rod and 1.60" piston (stock bottom end) a 5cc flat top (factory) a 58cc chamber is 9.37:1, the 61cc chamber is 9.04:1. The only way you will get 10.5:1 is swap pistons....

The TFS heads are in different families, some are F.A.C and some are CNC ported, all are
transitioning to a CNC finished chamber. Greg@TFS correct me if I am wrong. The valve spring packages TFS has are single spring on the base heads, the the Track Heat upgrade is a dual spring, depending on what cam you go with you may end up swapping them out. Most custom cams I do require a little more then the 120lb seat pressure that is common, but it all depends on the EXACT combo they are on and ramp rate of the cam, and the weight of the valve train, etc...

What are your future plans with the car and combo, a little large now can be compensated for so you are not replacing parts down the road.

fiveohlover · May 31, 2012

my future plans is to either stroke it or add some boost or a 100 shot

Gregg@TFS · May 31, 2012

Rick 91GT said:
With a 8.2 deck, 3" stroke, 5.09" rod and 1.60" piston (stock bottom end) a 5cc flat top (factory) a 58cc chamber is 9.37:1, the 61cc chamber is 9.04:1. The only way you will get 10.5:1 is swap pistons....

The TFS heads are in different families, some are F.A.C and some are CNC ported, all are
transitioning to a CNC finished chamber. Greg@TFS correct me if I am wrong. The valve spring packages TFS has are single spring on the base heads, the the Track Heat upgrade is a dual spring, depending on what cam you go with you may end up swapping them out. Most custom cams I do require a little more then the 120lb seat pressure that is common, but it all depends on the EXACT combo they are on and ramp rate of the cam, and the weight of the valve train, etc...

What are your future plans with the car and combo, a little large now can be compensated for so you are not replacing parts down the road.

You are correct, there are a couple different families of heads. You have the F.A.C. head now that have cnc'd chambers available in the 170cc or the 190cc runners. The 170cc head as 2 chambers available 58cc which will require pistons or the good old 61cc that will work on any stock short block up to .540" lift and of course that depends on the duration of the cam. The 190cc head only comes in the 64cc chamber and the dual spring (.600" lift spring). The F.A.C. heads are also available in the Street or the Track Heat versions. The Street heads still have the emissions ports, 3/8" rockers studs and they come with the single spring good up to .540" lift. The Track Heat heads DO NOT have the emissions ports, they have 7/16 rocker studs and they come with the dual spring good up to .600" lift.

The CNC'd family of heads you have the 185 and 205cc heads. They CNC'd heads come in different versions as well. To start off the list you have the Street ported 185cc that is available in the 58cc (once again requires pistons) or the 64cc chamber. Both heads come with the dual springs.

Then last but not least you get into the Race CNC'd heads which come in the 185 and 205cc runner sizes. The 185cc head only comes in the 64cc chamber and the 205cc head only comes with a 65cc chamber.

All of the cnc'd heads we offer come with the 7/16 studs and the dual springs.

I hope this clears up the offerings that are available in the Twisted Wedge line up.

Gregg@TFS · May 31, 2012

fiveohlover said:
my future plans is to either stroke it or add some boost or a 100 shot

I am sorry I read through most of the thread and have read your questions but I must have missed this. Are you you currently working with a stock short block or are you starting from scratch?

Rick 91GT · May 31, 2012

Stock shortblock.....

So Confused On Trick Flow Heads?

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