So $%&* frustrated

USU_Stang · Dec 16, 2004

The more I read about these damn cars the more I am hating life...My mustang was modified from I6 to V8 by a previous owner, and I saw another thread about this conversion. The link (http://members.cox.net/daugherty_pgdr_leaders/FAQ/I6-V8-Swap.htm) seemed to imply that 5 lug wheels are not necessary for a V8 conversion....is four lug going to be ok? I am fine with the size of my wheels and do not relish the idea of buying new rear axle, spindles, wheels AND tires (and dumping the perfectly good ones I have) in addition to the new springs, shocks, bushings and gears I am currently planning on installing. I am planning a restomod that shouldn't see more than 325 horsepower...

thanks
--Jason

tweet66 · Dec 16, 2004

suspension changes

If you put anything more than 250hp through the six cyl. rear axle you'll be asking for trouble...ask me how I know I'm not saying that cruising around driving like grandma, the axle won't hold up but punch it acouple times with 325hp and it will detonate. IMO drum brakes should be upgraded to disks even with a stock 289, it's more of a safety issue since the 6 cyl drums are inadequit(sp?) fro a V8. As for the coils and springs, drag racers use 6 cyl front coils for better weight transfer, but don't plan on driving into a corner with any sense of security. Body roll and dive will be greater. I've converted my 66 coupe, 64 & 65 Falcon sedans to V8's and put, at least, the stock V8 components on them for my piece of mind.

rbohm · Dec 16, 2004

if you have a 65-66 car, i highly recomend that you use the V8 spindle, or swap to the granada spindle(or something similar). at the rear i recomend an 8" rear, you wont need a 9". if you have a 67 or later stang, you can keep the stock front spindles as they are the same as the V8 spindle, but i still recomend that you swap to an 8" rear end. if you can try to find one from a six cylinder maverick in say 72 or 73 as that is when they started using the 8" rear in the six cylinder cars AND kept the 4 bolt axles.

jaredgoodwin · Dec 16, 2004

Don't go for the Granada on a 65-66. Big discussion going on at mustangsteve.com on differences in the spindles causing unexpected bumpsteer.

krash kendall · Dec 16, 2004

USU_Stang said:
The link seemed to imply that 5 lug wheels are not necessary for a V8 conversion....is four lug going to be ok?.... I am planning a restomod that shouldn't see more than 325 horsepower...

thanks
--Jason

The previous owner of my car left the I6 stuff in the front. The rear end had already self obliterated behind the 302 and was replaced with the nine inch.

I drove it with the questionable small drums up front four lug wheels and sqashed springs untill - SNAP!!! - Off came a front wheel!!! The flange actually broke right around the bolt pattern.

After a tow truck home I went to my private mustang wrecker and bought V8 spindles, springs, steering linkage and pitman arm for $225. CDN. that we stripped off a burnt vert. I had a new idler arm already, but if you don't its a good time to replace it.

You get more than just an extra wheel bolt with the swap. You get: Larger brakes, stiffer springs, larger/stronger steering components, one less joint in the steering at the idler end (makes a BIG difference), and a remarkably noticeable difference in handling and braking (read - safety).

I got the car off a neighbour I've know for ten years, so the previous history wasn't speculation. I had driven it after tuning it up for him with the I6 rear end in it shortly before it went south.

Any comparison I've made is between stock components only and on a budget. In addition to the $225.00 I purchased a pair of original 14" ford steel rims and had good used radials mounted and balanced for $40.00. I am running '66 wheel covers.

I'm sure Historic will chime in today as this is one of his favorite topics.

latamud · Dec 16, 2004

USU_Stang said:
The link (http://members.cox.net/daugherty_pgdr_leaders/FAQ/I6-V8-Swap.htm) seemed to imply that 5 lug wheels are not necessary for a V8 conversion....

I don't see what you are talking about on that site, here's what I do see:
Parts
V8 Front Spindles
V8 5 lug rotors/drums
Brakes-
Rebuild the V8 5 lug drum front and rear brakes you got for the swap with
new pads, springs, wheel cylinders, and adjusting star wheel.

"6 cylinder cars were made with lighter duty parts all the way around. This includes the brakes, suspension, rear end, transmission, just about everything. These parts will have to be upgraded to V8 parts. This will also give you 5 lug wheels for the 65-66 cars, instead of the stock 6 cylinder 4 lugs." -Blake66

"The six to V-8 swap is best accomplished using a V-8 donor car as a parts source. The alternative is to spend even more money and time chasing needed parts for the conversion. To ignore the need for V-8 specific parts is to create a dangerous and poor handling car" - SuperDave

Where does it imply that 4 lug is okay for a V-8 swap?

mustangdave · Dec 16, 2004

I ran 4 lug, six cyl. springs, and the wimpy rear on my swap for years with no problem but I was at stock h.p. levels. It's also a 67 so there were no inferior frt. end parts other than the springs.

USU_Stang · Dec 16, 2004

It's a 68 so the idler arm etc. are fine...

This is where it implies (at least to me) that four lug is ok:

"64 1/2 -66 cars have a lot of different suspension parts that need to be changed and are very costly. 67 and later share almost everything except the spindles out,(5 lug vs. 4 lug and brakes). Springs also have a higher rate for V8 cars and sometimes a bigger sway bar.

As for small parts, consider you might need a new radiator, hoses, senders for temp. and oil,mods to ehaust since now you have two sides vs. one, brackets and pulleys if you didn't get them with the donor engine.

If you do upgrade to five lug, you will need a complete rear end that probably needs a brake rebuild at least. Same for the front. brakes." - MustangDave

latamud · Dec 16, 2004

USU_Stang said:
This is where it implies (at least to me) that four lug is ok:
If you do upgrade to five lug, you will need a complete rear end that probably needs a brake rebuild at least. Same for the front. brakes." - MustangDave

That one instance of "IF" implies you can use 4 lug. Well, I guess you are right. The wheels will roll, the brakes will stop you. Just my $.02, spending a few hundred dollars to keep yourself and everyone else in your car safer, or lessen the risk of tie rod faliure, are more important than cutting corners and using weaker components for an aplication they weren't intended for. Just my .02

USU_Stang · Dec 16, 2004

latamud said:
That one instance of "IF" implies you can use 4 lug. Well, I guess you are right. The wheels will roll, the brakes will stop you. Just my $.02, spending a few hundred dollars to keep yourself and everyone else in your car safer, or lessen the risk of tie rod faliure, are more important than cutting corners and using weaker components for an aplication they weren't intended for. Just my .02

The fact that I am already pouring ALL the excess money I have into this project makes me wary of purchasing something that is not necessary. That is why I asked, because I didn't know.

thanks
--Jason

mustangdave · Dec 16, 2004

The tie rods, idler arms, etc.. are the same for 67 up for the I6 and the V8 cars, so don't worry about that. You car will sag in the frt. unless you put new springs in, which are fairly cheap. A larger sway bar will help handling. Drive it with the knowledge that you can't stop anywhere near as quickly as modern cars and keep a safe distance. The car will be safe to drive normally but don't go hotrodding around corners and expect it to grip without sway bar and spring upgrades.

latamud · Dec 16, 2004

USU_Stang said:
The fact that I am already pouring ALL the excess money I have into this project makes me wary of purchasing something that is not necessary. That is why I asked, because I didn't know.

thanks
--Jason

Jason,

It was a good question.

oboebrian · Dec 16, 2004

Jason, I put that quick guide up based on information about I6-V8 swaps that was going to be lost in the archiving of the forums. I have since done a lot of research to put together a swap manual on the subject. But like the other couple manuals (paint/body, interior upholstery, etc.) I haven't had time to finish them.

In any swap you should swap out everything including the 5 lug stuff. This will be beneficial to you in more ways than one. Safety in driving is the biggest factor. Second factor is that staying with the 4-lug severly limits your choice of aftermarket wheels and also increases the cost of them.

To be honest, a couple guys around here and other forums didn't swap out everything and kept with the 4 -lug drums etc. But personally I wouldn't do so, especially with a stout V8. Even If i was keeping a I^ i would definitely go for a 5 lug conversion, and very highly recommend disc brake conversion. The Stainless Steel conversion kits have gone down in price along with the Baer and Willwood coversions. I know the SS convresion has saved my butt a time or two and was well worth the lil extra that I paid for them.

reyesjo · Dec 17, 2004

V6 to V8

Don't go for the Granada on a 65-66. Big discussion going on at mustangsteve.com on differences in the spindles causing unexpected bumpsteer.....

I don't know what this guy is talking about, I spent half the day, trying to find a negitive comment about the Granada swap on Mustangsteeve website.....

What I ran into doing the V6 to V8 converstion.... with the center drag link of the V6; it would hit on my drivers side header when I would turn... I have all the suspenstion to do the converstion... cost in doing the convestion is as follow. 100 for the 1978 Granada disk brakes, 100 for a 8" rear end, 150.00 for the new center drag link, ideler arm, pitarm, and 2 outer tirrod ends, bought new threw dallas mustang, the lower control arm assem 140, upper balljoints 40.00 4 shocks 80.00, 620 lbs springs 72.00, thats about it, what I have left to buy is small brakes stuff and rear leaf springs. I have been collecting parts for the past 6 months to do the 4 - 5 lug converstion...Oh I left out the 17 X 8" smoothie II rims with 4.75 backspacing for 240 each.

Man no wonder my wife won't talk to me to much stinking money... oh well she will get over it when she sees the finished product.

StaffAmerica74 · Dec 17, 2004

about the granada thing....http://members.boardhost.com/MustangSteve/ 3 quarters of the way down you will see it..... makes me kinda mad i just put them on my car with everything brand new on them.... oh well someone will come up with a solution for them

USU_Stang · Dec 17, 2004

So...are there still problems with the granada swap on a 68? it seems like that thread said only for 65 and 66...

HistoricMustang · Dec 17, 2004

MustangSteve ain't Stangnet. The Granada spindles are just fine on a 65/66 and I "bet my butt on them" everytime I turn her loose at the track.

HistoricMustang
www.historicmustang.com

reyesjo · Dec 17, 2004

granada disk brakes swap

Man I sure hope so..."that the granada swap is good", I have all the parts to convert, I'm going with a 1978 Granada disk Brakes, 620 lb spring, new upper and lower control arms, new center drag link, new tierods, new idler arms and pitarm, and new shocks the GR2 from KYB, and I'm consdiering the shelby drop... just waiting for the 17 X 8 Smoothie II rims I order with 4.75 backspacing to come in... If the HistoricMustang saids its good at high speeds around a circle track its good enough for me "crusin around the block....Would like more info.. if other's have the Granada setup..

latamud · Dec 17, 2004

reyesjo said:
I'm consdiering the shelby drop...

Its a good idea, especially while you have everything off the car.

mustangdave · Dec 17, 2004

I just reread the original post and have a comment: DO NOT waste your money on gears for the I6 rear end. With 325 h.p., it is a matter of time before you have to upgrade the rear and you will have wasted that money because the gears will not transfer to the newer rear end. All of the springs and such will.

So $%&* frustrated

USU_Stang

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