So How Stupid Will GM Feel If....

GelatiCruiser · Mar 25, 2004

The '05 GT puts down better numbers than the "storied" GTO? I could really see this happening....mid-high 13's is not out of the question for the '05 GT, and it wold be a COMPLETE bag-over-the-head-punch-in-the-face to GM.

CatmanJJ · Mar 25, 2004

GelatiCruiser said:
it wold be a COMPLETE bag-over-the-head-punch-in-the-face to GM.

I'd bet it'd put down similar numbers to the Mach 1 which is close to the LS1 GTO...but for about 5 grand less. GTO is a sweet well performing machine but GM lost the high volume, rwd V8, pony car competitiveness when they dumped the F-bodies. I guess we'll see what they do when they come out with the next gen GTO with the rumor of the sister car being the new Camaro.

Omegalock · Mar 25, 2004

IT shouldn't bother them as they didn't exactly try very hard to make sure that didn't happen.

Wylde · Mar 25, 2004

I doubt they care since they are making a pile of cash on trucks and SUVs. Besides that, the GTO is not even available in Canada which furthers their lack of brains in offering competition in any segment remotely close to a pony car. I would so much love to see them lose a hundred boatloads of people to Ford. maybe it will teach them a little lesson and knock them off their high horses.

Ned · Mar 25, 2004

The GTO looks like a glorified Grand Am or something The horsepower is fairly impressive but even so, I still dont think it will be an overwhelmign success. Once you stop making a car, even if you do bring it back, its just not the same Ford has stuck with it over the years and now here comes the 05 EVERYONE is talking about this car and I even know some die hard chevy guys that want to buy one! With GM dropping the Fbody, even with the GTO, I still think they'll lose a huge chunk of customers and even if they do bring the F-body back (as Ive heard they are planning to do) it wont be the same..just my thoughts.

Wylde · Mar 25, 2004

I am a former die hard GM fan, they are losing me to Ford and the 05 Mustang because it seems that Ford is the only company that is offering something good and affordable for the average guy. They only offer 3 vehicles in a convertible and all of them are $75k Canadian and higher. Forget it!

Ned · Mar 25, 2004

Wylde said:
I am a former die hard GM fan, they are losing me to Ford and the 05 Mustang

now thats what I liek to hear Not that GM doesnt offer some amazing vehicles, but the average guy cannot afford a corvette. The camaro and the Mustang were neck and neck- basically they were the same (although one is clearly better than the other! ) RWD cars with a V8 engine, good aftermarket parts so modding them is affordable. As much as I bash GM(all in good fun of course!) I am going to miss the camaro, without some healthy competiton its just not as fun

SWortham · Mar 25, 2004

A few years ago when the Mustang and Camaro were competing, the Mustang was putting the Camaro to shame in terms of # of sales. More than twice the sales I believe. I think this trend will continue unless Chevrolet really comes up with something amazing for the new Camaro.

The GTO is a nice car... but I think it's higher price is going to hurt it when the '05 Mustang is introduced. The Mustang's performance will be very comparable, and it's going to sell even better than in recent years. It'll be much more successful for Ford than the GTO will ever be for GM.

As for the Corvette, it's in another class. It's IRS and therefore a better handler, but it's also a lot more expensive. And so it's not for everybody -- at 6' 5", I can't even fit in it!

I really think that the Mustang is the best thing Ford has to offer. There is nothing else quite like it.

mransr · Mar 25, 2004

Ned said:
The GTO looks like a glorified Grand Am or something

I saw one the other day and my first thought was: WOW the new Grand Am sure got big...then i got closer and saw the GTO emblem ...what a let down of a car...

numenor27 · Mar 25, 2004

Ned said:
Ford has stuck with it over the years and now here comes the 05 EVERYONE is talking about this car and I even know some die hard chevy guys that want to buy one! QUOTE]

Even people who know nothing about cars or mustangs have seen the 05

SVTdriver · Mar 25, 2004

Well Chevy is saying it's colorado truck is competition for the V6 stang.

5iveL173r · Mar 25, 2004

i don't know, would they?

demillso · Mar 26, 2004

I think the new GTO is a great idea but GM dropped the ball on the design. That thing looks like a grand am mated with a cavalier. I also find it funny that with all the smooth new vehicles ford is coming out with (05 stang, GT, Montego, etc) that GM is making such a big deal of advertising their competition which centers around that truck that looks like a bubble and the Aveo which is quite possibly the worst car ever.

SVTdriver · Mar 26, 2004

Come on they needed something to replace the geo metro. Which is kinda what the aveo looks like.

Wylde · Mar 26, 2004

SVTdriver said:
Come on they needed something to replace the geo metro. Which is kinda what the aveo looks like.

Essentially the Aveo is the replacement to the Geo and it's over priced for the clown car you get. I saw a fully loaded 4 door one in a showroom with a $17400 MSRP (Canadian). Nuts MAN!

FNG 2001 · Mar 26, 2004

Aveo = economy rental car. I thought I reserved a focus? What the hell is that?

Wylde · Mar 26, 2004

I was at my GM dealer today that I get corporate pricing from (dealer invoice + 2%). I gave him the bad news that I am buying a Mustang next year. He was choked but understood where I was coming from and he agreed that GM has absolutely nothing in comparison. He suggested I wait a couple years instead but I told him I wouldn't, I made up my mind and I want a Mustang.

RiceEating5.0 · Mar 27, 2004

GTO is a nice car, and i don't really see it as competition for Mustang....especially the GT.

It's just a completely different beast. IRS, roomy backseat for a coupe, good ride, good comfy/roomy interior, etc... Seems like a better daily driver. I wouldn't buy it for the same reasons as a Mustang GT, which is why i think they'll attract different customers. GTO almost seems like a semi-luxury sports coupe, whereas the mustang is a pony car and sports coupe. I think they serve different purposes. GM was probably aiming at the 350z, G35, and other semi-luxury and luxury performance coupes.

65conv50 · Mar 27, 2004

RiceEating5.0 said:
GTO is a nice car, and i don't really see it as competition for Mustang....especially the GT.

It's just a completely different beast. IRS, roomy backseat for a coupe, good ride, good comfy/roomy interior, etc... Seems like a better daily driver. I wouldn't buy it for the same reasons as a Mustang GT, which is why i think they'll attract different customers. GTO almost seems like a semi-luxury sports coupe, whereas the mustang is a pony car and sports coupe. I think they serve different purposes. GM was probably aiming at the 350z, G35, and other semi-luxury and luxury performance coupes.

I agree with the above. Aimed for a different market, just like the original Goat. The original Pontiac GTO was a plain-jane LeMans with a monstrous engine. Had to look close at the badges to recognize it when it was parked - but a different story on the street!!! Looks and sound unique - the first Musclecar. Glad to see it back. I'll never buy one, but I'm glad to see that breed is still alive.

Black R/A · Mar 27, 2004

The GTO is not a Mustang competitor. Never was historically. Never will be. Though guys are now posting 13.3s with the GTO, it likely won't be as fast as the new Mustang GT. The GT is likely going to be quicker than rated, and I think it may be good for low 13s - something like the Mach 1. Remember the three valve heads have VVT, so there's going to be a big improvement.

Mustang's GM competitor will be out in 2007. It will likely be a new Camaro. A new GTO will be on the market then too. GM has a sports coupe slated to be built but because of union politics it's pretty hushed up. There's a thread over on www.camaroz28.com about it.

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