Speeding up an all-stock '66 coupe

[daddybigwords]

Just bought my first mustang, a 1966 coupe with a 289 and a 3 speed automatic. I'm not interested in drag racing on a track because I just don't have the kind of money that it takes to compete well there. However, I would like to beat my friends taking off from a stoplight. What changes can I make that would give me the greatest speed increase for the least amount of money? The most I can spend is about 5k. I'm that for that much money I can get fast enough to beat my friend's all-stock 2003 WRX, but I'll settle for beating everyone else.

Thanks in advance for your advice!
Dave

 

[xoxbxfx]

Dave...

RIght now my first question is how much mechanical skill do you have?? I you feel confident in doing basic motor work or gear install, you can go a long ways with 5000$. I think you can find a good shortblock (used) for about a thousand, swap cam, and install a set of heads. This will give you a good horsepower increase and will give you a spare motor incase of accidents.

If you dont like a new motor route, I would look into getting gears, say 3.73's or so and look into a 5spd transmission. The reason I recommend the tranny is because with 3.73 gears and a 3spd auto, you gas milage is going to decrease terribly and it wont be much of a daily driver type setup. You can get a new T5 tranny for $1000 and the other conversion stuff for less than $500. Add in $150 for the gears and $150 for install, you still have a lot of cash left over. With that cash I would look into a set of aluminium heads, intake and possibly a cam swap. I think with $5000 you can do all of those things but you will have to do the majority of the work yourself. Labor on this type of stuff is not cheap.




Now to act like an adult with a moderate hp classic car you really really need to look into safety stuff. How is teh front end suspension? Does it need to be rebuilt? When you race from a streetlight, are your brakes going to let you stop in time when a car pulls out in front of you? I would really look into a power disc brake setup for the front brakes. Maybe you should be looking into brakes ($1200), gears ($300), and tranny ($1500) and then look into other options for motor work.

 

[SuperDave]

Dollar for dollar, a lower geared differential will give you the most "bang for the buck." The possibilities beyond that are limited only by your wallet.

 

[daddybigwords]

xoxbxfx: I'm not very mechanically skilled, but I have friends who are and they're willing to help me learn. I bought the car partly because I want to become mechanically skilled. It already has front disc brakes, forgot to mention that. I should have made the title "almost-all stock" Since it's an automatic, switching to manual makes me a little nervous... that's a lot of work. Are there any automatic transmissions out there that will give me almost the same level of performance as a manual?

SuperDave: Regarding that differential... would a posi make much difference? e.g. is a 3.73 posi much faster than a 3.73 open or is the difference mostly in handling?

Thanks for your help guys!

Dave

 

[SadbutTrue]

Posi grips both tires, instead of just one. Lets you apply more throttle at launch without just spinning the tires. No real difference as far as handling goes.

Higher (numerically) geared differentials accelerate faster, but also top out sooner. You'll get to your top speed a lot faster, but that top speed will drop some and it can slaughter your gas mileage if you aren't careful.

Beyond that, 5 grand is a lot. You can be beating stock WRXs for much less than that.

I would only do basic mods to the engine. Intake, Carb, headers, exhaust, ignition, maybe a cam set and ported heads. With good selections here you coul dbe up to 300-320 horses out of a 289, which is a lot more than a WRX. That should set you back roughly a grand, assuming you do it yourself.

Then have a shop throw a posi unit into your rearend (should be doable for 500). As others have advised, I'd also have that shop throw some higher-numerically gears while they are down there (3.23-3.55). This might add about 250. Get some bigger tires (300). Also might want to drop a few hundred in simple suspension mods (sway bars, export brace, and monte carlo bar). Those listed would run about 200. So we are up to 2+ grand. You might also need a transmission rebuilt if its been worn down.

Assuming your car has a stock C4 transmission (3 speed auto), throwing a 25$ shift kit in (allows you to shift manually, and gives you greater control over the shifts) will provide you with an excellent transmission for your purposes. Light, low parasitic loss, can take some abuse if built. So with brakes and transmission, 3300 or so.

It all depends on how much work you want to do yourself. If you do it all yourself and hunt for parts use don ebay and in junkyards, this could be done for less than 2 grand. Using shops and not doing any of it yourself, it could use all 5000.

 

[SuperDave]

If you ever rode a multi-speed bicycle you know that starting off in a "high" gear required a lot of effort whereas starting of in a "low" gear got you going quicker. Same applies with a car except the "gears" are more difficult to change.

A "posi" (a GM term; Fords have "traction locks") is not going to get you off the line any quicker because your car doesn't have enough power to take advantage of it.

I'd recommend just learning bSIC mechanics and acquiring a good set of tools tools before venturing into modifications. A stock early Mustang is not,and never was, particularly fast, especially compared to modern cars. A '66 is nearly forty years old. Unless you spend some serious money, you will never run with a WRX.

 

[66P51GT]

Regarding that differential... would a posi make much difference? e.g. is a 3.73 posi much faster than a 3.73 open or is the difference mostly in handling?

Posi/Traction Lock will allow you to put more HP to the pavement faster since you will have equal power going to two wheels rather than one. Big improvement off the line, especially considering your goal is beating an all wheel drive WRX.

My rule of thumb... you can build all the HP you want, but if you can't control it on the pavement, it won't do you any good.

 

[SuperDave]

I've no arguement with a TractionLoc diff BUT an otherwise stock Mustang doesn't have enough power to seriously spin the tires. I stand by my statement: dollar for dollar, there is no more effective low-end improvement that gears.

BTW, spinning the rear tires realy doesn't accompish much but can actually DROP the ET of a bone-stock car. To think otherwise is a fantasy.

 

[SadbutTrue]

if he did the mods, and matched them well, taht I listed above to his engine, it should be at the point that it would benefit from a traction lok. Even stock 289s spin their tires when floored with open rears, so while it wouldn't get the benefit a larger engine might, I think just about any non-smogged V8 will benefit from a posi/traction lock type system.

 

[66P51GT]

Even stock 289s spin their tires when floored with open rears.

I can attest to that.

To give you an idea on cost, here is a breakdown of what to expect in real world shopping. Mind you, It took me about four months of research and lots of time at swap meets. Prices are actual with shipping and/or taxes.

Engine - New Components (mostly from Summit)
Performer RPM Intake Manifold $110.00
Dart Windsor Jr. Heads (185s) $640.00 (150mi. used)
Roller Rocker Arms $140.00
B&M Vintage K&N Air Filter $108.00
Holley Fuel Pump $75.59
Comp Cams XE274H $99.95
Rhodes Lifter $85.95
Comp Camp Pushrods 6.875 $27.95
Ford Racing Timing Chain $65.95
Water Pump $156.75
Head Gaskets $30.95
Intake Manifold Gasket Set $13.95
Powermaster 140 Amp Alternator $186.95

Total Engine $1,769.99

Drivetrain - Used and Rebuilt
Bell Housing $50.00
Block Plate $25.00
Fork $10.00
Pedals $155.19
Transmission Cross Member $85.00
T-5 Transmission $800.00 (M-7003-Z)
Hurst Pro 5.0 Shifter $100.00
Ram 900 Clutch and Pressure Plate $100.00
Ford Racing Aluminum Driveshaft $100.00
Cable Clutch $179.00 (mustang steve)
Flywheel $150.00 (billet steel)
Rear End $550.00 (8" 4 spider traction lock w/ new 3.80 gears)

Total Drivetrain $2,596.64

Exhaust - New Components
Flowmaster 50s 2.25" Mufflers $151.00
X-Pipe $75.00
MAC Long Tube Headers $249.99
Exhaust Installation - $150.00 (estimate)

Total Exhaust $475.99

Ignition - New Components
MSD 6A Ignition Module $100.00
MSD Pro-Billet Distributor $239.95
MSD Blaster 3 Coil $37.00
MSD 8.5mm Plug Wire Set $79.95

Total Ignition $491.90

Grand Total $5,334.52

 

[blue66tang]

You can go prety dang quick with 5k. I would highly recomend the t5 swap. Do some hunting and you should be able to do a whole swap with 1k or less. Some people will say no, but i did it for a little over 700. Now get some good gears i say 4.11. The t5 works very well with low gears(again some people will argue 4.11 is to low). While your doing the rear i would highly recomend getting a trac loc. Now your up to about 1.5-2k. 3k is still enough money to kill a wrx if you do it right. I would start with a low miles short block from a late modle mustang. Then you can add a good cam, heads, ignition, intake, carb and you are golden. I wouldn't worry to much about getting stuff like water pump or a high dollar radiator. They are nice to have, but a good clean radiator and good stock pump will work just fine. I am leaving out alot of little things but do some good shopping and you should be a far bit quicker than the wrx.

 

[daddybigwords]

So as far as transmission goes, I've got one vote for using a shift kit on the C4, and a couple votes for doing a T5 swap. The overdrive is appealing for highway driving (esp. if I get a 3.73 or higher differential) but I'm not sure I want to do the whole swap... that sounds like a lot of work. Is there a good automatic transmision with overdrive that I could use instead, or do I have to make a choice between overdrive and automatic? By good I mean one that 1) is reliable and 2) can launch me *fast*

Thanks again for all your help guys!

Dave

 

[speedy66]

306--100 for the short block used
B cam-- 100 used
roller lifters- 298
E-7 heads-50
machine work and pistons etc-1100
Weiand hi rise intake-156
edelbrock carb-200
Holley 110 gph fuel pump-118
Headers-157
MSD 6AL-100
pertronix ignitor II-89
Tq convtr-185
gasket set-85
Engine total---$2738

Gears-187
to get them installed-200

Total=3125

 

[xoxbxfx]

So as far as transmission goes, I've got one vote for using a shift kit on the C4, and a couple votes for doing a T5 swap. The overdrive is appealing for highway driving (esp. if I get a 3.73 or higher differential) but I'm not sure I want to do the whole swap... that sounds like a lot of work. Is there a good automatic transmision with overdrive that I could use instead, or do I have to make a choice between overdrive and automatic? By good I mean one that 1) is reliable and 2) can launch me *fast*

Thanks again for all your help guys!

Dave

yes and no on your tranny question. There is an automatic transmission with overdrive. Its called an AOD. This is the same transmission that ford has used for years in all of their cars from the mid 80's till now. The problem with an AOD is they are weak unless built correctly. There are a couple companies out there that build AOD transmissions to hold seriour power, 800hp or so, but its overkill for your situation. A stock AOD is supposed to suppord around 340 hp. This is right where you will be sitting. The other disadvantage to the AOD is that it will rob you of quite a bit of power. The transer rate is around 20% loss by the time it gets to the wheels with an automatic vs 15% on a manual.

If you really want to do something cool with an AOD, get an ArtCarr AOD or Lentech AOD (built race ones) with a transmission brake. That will allow you to stall the hell out of the motor and lauch by pressing a button.

 

[SuperDave]

Here we go again! The poster cleary states that he just got the car, he is inexperiened mechanically AND he can spend $3-5K. Clearly, suggestions offered here far exceed those parameters.

Chances are, any '66 car is going to need basic MAINTENANCE before dumping money in to modifications. Chanes are brakes, steering, suspenion, tires, etc. need attention. For example, a shift kit in an aged transmission only will stress it to the point of possible failure. Adding an AOD will NOT make the car any faster. I realize that the BASICS aren't glamous but I believe that the poster has clearly described his limitations and they have been ignored.

Help me understand

 

[speedy66]

I am not the greatest mechanic in the world.. But I think anyone with guidance can build a motor.. So not out of his reach.. Brakes, steering, suspension.. unless doing major modifications can be done by following instructions, and guidance.. I would not touch a rearend to save my soul.. but thats why there are pros.

 

[SuperDave]

I am not the greatest mechanic in the world.. But I think anyone with guidance can build a motor.. So not out of his reach.. Brakes, steering, suspension.. unless doing major modifications can be done by following instructions, and guidance.. I would not touch a rearend to save my soul.. but thats why there are pros.

Thus, my point exactly. Guidance and TOOLS are required especially for a beginner. Just like building a house, you shouldn't build one on a poor foundation. Cars are no different.

Building a car requires money, time, skill (guidance), space and finances. If any of those elements are lacking, the project is handicapped severely. I speak from years of experience in the hobby.

 

[MrBobMarley]

Dude, just hang on the that money for a little while. You just got the car, you dont know that your radiator is shot, your heads are cracked, you might need a new voltage regulator etc. You never know what's ALREADY wrong with it. What I'm saying is, hang to the money, let more money add to it and research the hell out of your engine, suspension, brakes and so on. Going fast is easy but you NEED a solid base to work from.

Get some hands on experience by changing your brake pad/shoes, rebuilding your stock carb (you'd be surprised, it'll pull a little harder after this). I'm also not telling you not to jump headfirst into this, sometimes that is the best way to learn.

I'd recommend going through the wiring, looking for burns and shorts. It's a long shot, but you never know. You just got the car bro, learn it inside and out. Then go from there.

 

[Jonstantine]

1st, welcome to the mustang world
check my vid at teh bottom
its a 66, 3spd with 2.8 gears (much worse than 373s)
a wrx runs mid 13's i believe

my car should run mid 14's
i changed the cam (performer- is pretty mild), new intake/carb and some headers from stock 2barrel 289
i could break the 13 barrier easily with some nice aluminum heads (mine are stock)

heads 1 to 1.5k - look into air flow research
cam $100 - your preference
intake $150 - your preference (weiand is most popular - i like edelbrock)
carb $280 - this price is for a road demon... much better at a slightly higher price
exaust ?? - 2.5" pipes are probably about norm (decent mufflers)

of course you want to address safety issues - this would be most important
if youve got friends who know they're stuff, you can inspect and fix most everything
mainly brakes, and lube/check your suspension, i would also check for rust (hopefully you did this prior to buying)

and a rebuild kit for your motor is going to cost a few hundred
but your early mustang will move handily with just these mods

*reason i wanted you to check vid, is im really proud i finally got it to my cpu
im doing around 50 in the flyby in the first scene from teh complete stop burning the crap out of my tire

 

[Edbert]

A stock early Mustang is not,and never was, particularly fast, especially compared to modern cars. A '66 is nearly forty years old. Unless you spend some serious money, you will never run with a WRX.

Both true. A stock WRX can do mid to low 13's. I think it will take all of the $5K you have to get that fast in the quarter, but the WRX will eat you alive 0-30 due to AWD and will out brake and out slalom your car. Don;t get me wrong though, your 66 can be built to inhale that Subaru It is going to take more money than that though, particularly since you're going to want to build the suspension, brakes (factory discs WONT cut it), and chassis to take all the power. Has anyone suggested a blower yet?